Was Jesus Christs' physical body disposed of?

by hooberus 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  hooberus

  The Watchtower teaches that the body of Jesus Christ was "disposed of" after three days. The scriptures however say:

  "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body." John 2:19-21

  Note the following:

  • The same temple that was to be destroyed was to be raised up: The "it" in the phrase "raise it up" clearly refers back to "this temple"

  • The temple refers to Jesus' body: "But he spake of the temple of his body"

  • The body represents Jesus' physical body because 1. The phrase "this temple" is in the present tense. At that time Jesus had a physical body. 2. The temple spoken of was to be destroyed before being raised up. It was Jesus' physical body that was destroyed, thus it must be this body that was raised.

  Conclusion: The scriptures teach the resurrection of the body of Jesus Christ, not that his body was "disposed of" as the Watchtower falsely teaches.
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  czarofmischief

  What's the big deal? Who cares? It's an esoteric point to squabble over, like whether the communion wafers actually ARE blood and body or just represent blood and body.

  CZAR
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  ThiChi

  It says "temple of his body" not "Temple which is his body"

  What say you?
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  Narkissos

  While some (antidocetic) texts insist heavily on realistic, bodily resurrection (and Hooberus won't miss to point them out), others do suggest a difference. So the Pauline and post-Pauline texts which advocate a spiritual resurrection:

  1 Corinthians 15:45: Thus it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

  1 Peter 3:18: He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.

  This may account for the apparition stories where Jesus is not immediately recognized:

  John 20:14ff: When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for?" Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away." Jesus said to her, "Mary!" She turned and said to him in Hebrew, "Rabbouni!" (which means Teacher).

  Another such recognition story occurs in Luke 24:13ff (the Emmaus disciples). Luke inserts an antidocetic remark in v. 16: their eyes were kept from recognizing him. This is Luke's explanation, very consistent with his "realistic" view of resurrection which reaches a climax in v. 36ff:

  While they were talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." They were startled and terrified, and thought that they were seeing a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you frightened, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? Look at my hands and my feet; see that it is I myself. Touch me and see; for a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. While in their joy they were disbelieving and still wondering, he said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate in their presence.

  However, the Emmaus story is alluded to with a very different explanation in Pseudo-Mark 16:12 (unauthentic to Mark yet canonical):

  After this he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country.

  The "spiritual resurrection" texts are quite well-known from JWs, who tend to explain away the "realistic resurrection" stories. On the other hand, the advocates of bodily resurrection tend to explain away the other texts (yet feel somewhat uneasy with the "identical Jesus" appearing and disappearing suddenly). Respect for all the texts implies, IMO, admitting that at least two notions of "resurrection" are struggling with each other. And, from a historical standpoint, everything shows that the "spiritual resurrection" concept is the older Christian belief.
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  bebu

  I have a very simplistic view of this.

  I asked a JW a few years back, "Do you think that when Paul preached that Jesus was raised from the dead, that EVERY listener automatically thought about his original body dissipating into gases, and another body being raised with Jesus' spirit in it? Especially as their is no hint of these ideas given anywhere in the NT?" He had to admit that it was hard to think this was their immediate conclusion.

  The knee-jerk understanding of someone being "raised from the dead" is that the original dead body is no longer dead. Not with "someone else" inhabiting it, but the original "person".

  bebu
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  ellderwho

  My elder study had a problem with the bodily ressurection. It is total fabrication to insert the thought that "Jesus found a simular body with wounds in it." Hence, the Jw has to do away with any type of Jesus' own body raising.

  Then again when pressed, the Jw has no answer as to what came down from heaven to begin with!
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  hooberus

  It says "temple of his body" not "Temple which is his body"
  

  What say you?

  I would say that the phrase "temple of his body" refers to his physical body. Paul uses the same greek words for "body" and "temple" together. Here body obviously represents the physical body. "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:18-19 Also the temple spoken of was to be destroyed before being raised up. It was Jesus' physical body that was destroyed, thus it must be this body that was raised.
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  Narkissos

  As to the Pauline concept of spiritual resurrection (egeirô = awakening), I think 1 Corinthians 15:35ff is appropriate for the present discussion:

  But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" Fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And as for what you sow, you do not sow the body that is to be, but a bare seed, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. Not all flesh is alike, but there is one flesh for human beings, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. There are both heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one thing, and that of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; indeed, star differs from star in glory. So it is with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

  The "spiritual body" is later (?) thought as coexisting with the earthly one:

  For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling-- if indeed, when we have taken it off we will not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan under our burden, because we wish not to be unclothed but to be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

  This, of course, is Paul's evolving view, not the later antidocetic teaching of bodily resurrection as exemplified by Luke...
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  hooberus

  Isaiah said that God "will swallow up death in victory" He shortly thereafter talked about his dead body arising.

  "He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it." Isaiah 25:8
  

  "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead." Isaiah 26:19

  Paul also taught that the Christians' "mortal bodies" would be quickened (made alive). When the Christains mortal bodies are made immortal by resurrection then as Isaiah said (Paul even quoted Isaiah) death would be swallowed up in victory.

  "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:11

  "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." 1 Corinthians 15:54

  The above phrase "this mortal" clearly referrs to this mortal body. Paul in Romans 8:11 and 1 Corinthians 15:54 is talking about mortal bodies being made alive (not discarded, and not remaining in the grave). Paul taught the resurrection of the body. Paul hoped for the redemption of his body, not his body being discarded forever, but it (his body) being redeemed or transformed (Phil. 3:21).

  "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." Romans 8:23
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  hooberus

  I have a very simplistic view of this.

  I asked a JW a few years back, "Do you think that when Paul preached that Jesus was raised from the dead, that EVERY listener automatically thought about his original body dissipating into gases, and another body being raised with Jesus' spirit in it? Especially as their is no hint of these ideas given anywhere in the NT?" He had to admit that it was hard to think this was their immediate conclusion.

  The knee-jerk understanding of someone being "raised from the dead" is that the original dead body is no longer dead. Not with "someone else" inhabiting it, but the original "person".

  bebu

  I think that this is an excellent point.