Question for Dubs

Farkel

To this very day, the WTS teaches that "Babylon the Grape" ("the world EMPIRE of false religion") "fell" in 1918. That was 86 years ago, yet religion is bigger than ever before in the world, and for the most part it is practiced without any problems or governmental intervention. It is cults like the dubs which do get government interference in place, mostly because of their blood ban, and their sick and destructive social culture.

Where then, and how then, did Babylon the Grape "fall" in 1918, little dubbies?

Farkel

FirstInLine

some of the Brothers let their imaginations hope for things at certain dates that the society did not sanction. Such Brothers found that Jehovah did not act when they had expected and were thus disillusioned. Faithful Brothers accepted their dissappointment as their own fault for getting carried away and never blamed the Society for any disappointments.

The Society fully recognizes that Babylon the Grape is still in her power and eagerly awaits the time when Jehovah God shall smote her for her apostacy and drunkeness on the blood of the holy ones.

And if the society ever did yada yada... not come true yada yada... the society yada... not really a prophet yada... no false prophesies then yada yada yada... and we know this because yada... trinity is false, mikey died on a pole yada... we know you arent supposed to eat and drink anything Jesus told us to eat or yada yada... military is evil.

AlanF

The Society certainly has a tendency to produce doctrines capable of "proof" only through so-called "eyes of spiritual discernment."

Another example is the way they gradually jettisoned all of Russell's teachings about "Bible chronology" and replaced them with new ones that can be seen only with these "eyes of faith". About 1918 J. F. Rutherford began a process of replacing Russell's unfulfilled predictions with a series of invisible and spiritual events associated with the years 1914 and 1918. By the early 1930s the process was complete.

An interesting comment on this transformation was made by Carl Sagan in Broca's Brain:

Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more successful than doctrines that make false predictions.

But not always. One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and -- while the events of that year were certainly of some importance -- the world does not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended. There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say `1914'? So sorry, we meant `2014.' A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvenienced in any way." But they did not. They could have said, "Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth." But they did not. Instead, they did something much more ingenious. They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout. It is astonishing in the face of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough-mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration were needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry. [Carl Sagan, Broca's Brain, Ballantine Books, New York, 1982, p. 332-3]

AlanF

sunshineToo

some of the Brothers let their imaginations hope for things at certain dates that the society did not sanction. Such Brothers found that Jehovah did not act when they had expected and were thus disillusioned. Faithful Brothers accepted their dissappointment as their own fault for getting carried away and never blamed the Society for any disappointments.

The society DID came up with the prediction. Read the megazines from late 60s, hon.

According to your reasoning because the trinity is "false", the other religions are false.

Well, since the Watchtower's predictions and actions have proved that they are more than false, I guess the Watchtower Society and the Jehovah's Witnesses are FALSE, too.

OHappyDay

Carl Sagan had us figured out in 1982? Fascinating. Apocalypticism is our Achilles' heel. We fall into a long line of religions with failed expectations of the End. Best we left that to God, and go on living the Christian life (if we are Christians) day by day.

gumby

The society taught the babylon had a "SPIRITUAL FALL"....If I remember correctly. They feel Jesus came to inspect the temple in 1918 (shorly after his rule began) and found christendom like the foolish virgins who brought "no oil" to meet the bridegroom. They feel it was at this point Jehovah cast them off and that babylon failed spiritually because of NOT RECOGNIZING the bridegroom and his arrival.

Gumby

minimus

I never understood the reasoning, either. If it's "fallen", it seems like religion, even "false religion" , is more abundant today than at any time in history.

Farkel

gumby,

: The society taught the babylon had a "SPIRITUAL FALL"..

When a prediction of a literal event happens, gradually change it over to a "spiritual" or "invisible" one. The membership is too numb to see it, and they know it.

Even so, WHAT "spiritual fall" did they have? What EVIDENCE is there for that "spiritual" fall?

None. But WTS leaders, and by extension, their worshipers, never cared much for actual evidence when the evidence challenges their cherished fantasies.

Farkel

garybuss

?Evidently, Babylon the Great, although ?fallen?, is still functioning?

(The Watchtower - May 1, 1989, p.5)

gumby

Even so, WHAT "spiritual fall" did they have? What EVIDENCE is there for that "spiritual" fall?

There is no evidence. The WTS NEVER has evidence. Their lame reasoning is THEY ALONE recognized Jesus installment as King and since the nations nor christendom recognized it.......they are going to 'burn'.

How they can expect that "others" would know jesus came in 1914 without being influenced by the greybearded ol' bastard C.T.Russell is beyond me. I guess Jehovah only wanted a handfull to know his son showed up in 1914 and decided to tell Russell alone.

Jesus said when he came it would be like lightning across the sky and that EVERY eye would see him...........not that his pa would reveal it to a loner Miracle Wheat salesman. I also could never understand the WT reasoning on how "the nations beat themselves in lamentation" over the newly installed king Jesus. On one hand they say they didn't recognize his coming.....and on the other hand they 'beat themselves' because he took his rulership over.

Gumby

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