"If anyone calls himself a BROTHER ,"...................

by gumby 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ozziepost

  The exhortation of 1 Cor 5:11 is translated from the Greek word "synanamignyasthai" (literally "to be mixing selves up with") and is translated by the Dubs in the NWT as "quit mixing in company with". The WTS teaches that this is equivalent to their "disfellowshiping" procedure.

  However, the same word "synanamignyasthai" is used by Paul at 2 Thessalonians 3:14 in a discussion of how to treat christians who rejected the apostle's teachings. Yet the NWT renders it as "marked, stop associating with" and is used by the WTS as a key text in its "marking" procedure. "Marking" is a procedure that the WTS has whereby those congregation members who are doing things that are not quite right, but not warranting judicial action, are to be "marked" i.e. not afforded all the privileges of normal social fellowship, but they still are able to do all the things with the congregation that others do, but not socialise. Interestingly, this is an individual matter, not a congregation matter i.e. each congregation member decides for himself or herself whether to "mark" another or not.

  So we have the situation where the same word "synanamignyasthai", used by the same Bible writer, is rendered in two different ways by the WTS and worse, is used to substantiate their own peculiar shunning practices, namely "disfellowshiping" and "marking".

  Also of interest is that it's used by Paul in 2 Thessalonians to refer to ones who were "not obedient to our word", which in modern-day WTS parlance is apostasy!!!!! Yet they are simply to be "marked", not "disassociated" or "disfellowshiped".
• 

  itsallgoodnow

  It's that scripture that has me wondering about whether Christianity as a whole is just a cult.
• 

  RandomTask

  Regardless of what the scripture says or what they say their policy is, 3 elders can get together and disfellowship anyone for almost any reason and call it something bad. Thats just the way it is. The witnesses follow what the elders do because they think this is all from God and "Bible Based" and fear "god's judgement" (disfellowshipping from elders, losing ones friends, being marked, etc) themselves.

  Its that simple, no need to dwell on it, its part of their messed up policy and those who wish to be controlled will cherish it and love it (see 1984) and those who don't will leave and face the negative aspects (bieng shunned). But if you don't believe their tripe (and you shouldn't) then I wouldn't put stock in what they do or say, or what their policies are. You are out, count that as a blessing. By all means do whatever you can to open the minds of those who are still in that will listen to you, but know that there is a deeply rooted mechanism implanted inside them to reject what you have to say, you are better off not losing sleep over it.
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  ozziepost

  That's quite true, Random, but the points discussed here are being read by curious Dubs too and may well result in them seeing the truth about "The Troof", not because of wanting former dubs to "lose sleep over it".
• 

  gumby

  Ozzie....thanks for the overview . I remember Ray explained the same thing quite well in COC or ISOCF....I don't remember which. Yes the same word is used.....but a different consequence is imposed by the dubs.

  RT

  but know that there is a deeply rooted mechanism implanted inside them to reject what you have to say, you are better off not losing sleep over it.

  Well, there is a whole Forum of ex-dubs right here who would beg to differ. We listened, and we got out. So can others. I'll gladly lose sleep if I can get just one dub out of dubdom.

  Gumby
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  minimus

  Yeah. What Ozziepost said. Gee, you guys are smart!
• 

  gumby

  Gee, you guys are smart!

  You do a pretty good job yourself Min.

  Gumby
• 

  Farkel

  Gumby,

  : The problem I always had understanding is......If a person DOES NOT call himself a "brother" ( a witness) any longer, then how do they justify applying it to those who choose not to be recognised as such any longer?

  You poor soul. Do you still actually believe that the WTS actually USES the Bible anymore when they make their doctrine?

  You do?

  You poor, pathetic fool. The Bible is only a prop for the WTS. They don't actually believe what it says. It's a prop and what they say goes. If the words in the Bible actually agree with their doctrine, they will use it. If they don't, they make up shit and say it is all Bible Based(tm), without using any Bible references, of course.

  I'm still waiting to find out why they disfellowship folks for smoking which is NOT in the Bible.

  Here are the so-called DFing rules from the Bible itself: fornicator, greedy, idolator, reviler, drunkard, extortioner. 1 Cor 5:11.

  "Fornication" was never defined in the Bible. This is a sticky problem in and of itself. I know how the WTS defines it, but the Bible never clearly defines it. WHAT IS IT, as defined in the Bible? The Bible clearly defines adultery, but it doesn't clearly define fornication? Those of you who would respond, please respond with "Biblical" evidence as to the difference between fornication and adultery.

  Why does the WTS allow so many drunkards to be Elders and even higher-up members in view of their Bible-Based(tm) philosophy in view of 1 Cor 5:11? The culture of drunkism began with Rutherford and newbie Bethelites were hazed if they would not partake of the grape with the rest of the good-ol'-boys.

  I cannot count the times where elders in my congs. had parties where getting smashed was expected, and encouraged. This dates from the early 1960's when I was a teen to the early 1970's when I left.

  Yet they DF'd Ray Franz for having a simple MEAL with a person who was not DF'd, but just resigned from Watchtower Life? Since 1 Cor 5:11 is the ONLY verse that would imply any sort of shunning, and in NO way implies any sort of Institutionalized ENFORCED shunning, one has to wonder why one can be DF'd and shunning would be inforced on someone for say, swimming in the YMCA pool.

  Or even questioning the religious masters who make up all this crap? Where does 1 Cor 5:11 give them that authority to DF? It doesn't. They took that mantle upon themselves. That is why they are a dangerous cult. They make it up as they go. And the Bible, Jehovah and Jesus are merely props for them. Please don't forget this very important facts, folks.

  Farkel
• 

  RandomTask

  Farkel pretty much hit the nail on the head of what I was attempting to say.

  You quote scriptuires as if the Witnesses actually care about any scripture that contradicts their policies. Its like every story I read about someone in the religion getting enlightened that the witnesses are full of shit and then calling them on it, and then getting all surprised when they are forcefully rebuffed and refuse to listen to reason. Well no duh, we should all know the witnesses' game by now. Anyone who is still in the mindset that "this isn't right, the scriptures say one thing, but the witnesses say another", is in dire need of making that next step, the one where you realize that the witnesses have nothing to do with God or his scriptures and that they actually are a nothing organization misleading millions.

  I am not advocating that we do nothing, as you must have missed in my post that I said:

  You are out, count that as a blessing. By all means do whatever you can to open the minds of those who are still in that will listen to you

  But I also offered the caveat that you quoted me on:

  but know that there is a deeply rooted mechanism implanted inside them to reject what you have to say, you are better off not losing sleep over it.

  We cant have this mindset that people are supposed to think logically and that they don't use emotion to guide their thinking. If this was the case it would be no problem to bring down the witnesses within months. But I'm sure many with experience will tell you that they can spit out fact after bloody fact to people in the religion and end up strengthening their faith in it! It all depends on the open minded-ness of the person that you are talking to, their willingness to take that leap of faith that I talked about earlier. Some, if not most, don't have the stomach for it. SO no, don't lose sleep if you cant get your loved ones out, don't fret. Its like trying to move mount everest, and sometimes the best offense is to not be so offensive. It depends on the situation. I have seen so many people (myself included) get so frustrated about how little they are able to accomplish with the people they love and care about who are still tied to this evil organization. Its just my advice to take it easy sometimes, don't let them continue to ruin YOUR life. You are already out, count that as a blessing, at least you do have that.
• 

  Farkel

  Randomtask,

  : But I'm sure many with experience will tell you that they can spit out fact after bloody fact to people in the religion and end up strengthening their faith in it!

  Amen, brother!

  Questioner: How about THIS fact? yamayamayama: (any fact) A non-dub person sends out a fact to a dub.

  Dub: the fact that you are a part of Satan's organization shows that you are toast.

  Questioner: I asked you to address a FACT. Why won't you address a FACT?

  Dub: because you are demonized and a part of Satan's Organization(tm), that's why.

  Questioner: what does THAT have to do with my original question?

  Dub: Demons.

  Questioner: So you won't answer my question because you think I'm demonized? What if I'm actually demonized but I happen to ask a good question, then?

  Dub: You're still demonized and cannot be trusted.

  Questioner: it's not about ME, it's about my question, dimwit! What about my question, you dipFark?

  Dub: it's demonized. Can't answer it.

  This is about as close to it gets to having a rational conversation with a Cultist.

  Farkel