Do all informed JW's deny the man Christ Jesus as their mediator?

by hooberus 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Carmel

  Gumby, you be disfellowshipped if'n you persist in bein logical!

  carmel of the "non-magic wand" class
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  gumby

  Gumby, you be disfellowshipped if'n you persist in bein logical!

  LOL,

  I'm just waitin for ol' Hooberus to get done lookin through his commentaries to come up with an answer

  Gumby
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  FlyingHighNow

  Many here are familiar with the current Watchtower doctrine that Jesus is the mediator for only the 144,000.

  I was in all those years and never knew this. I mean, I knew that the gov bod was the channel God was using; but I didn't know Jesus wasn't my mediator. I always prayed in his name and thought he was my mediator where prayer was concerned. That was confusing enough thinking Jesus had to go tell God everything I said and that God couldn't hear me. If I had been told that Jesus wasn't my mediator at all...period....I probably would have left a lot sooner. I've heard it since I left and I think it's the most ridiculous, egotistical thing I have ever heard. What a bunch of decrepit geezer weasels! May they come back as Muslim women in a strict fundamentalist land. I'm surprised they can fit their heads through any doors they walk through.

  Heather
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  Will Power

  I always prayed in his name and thought he was my mediator where prayer was concerned.

  Sorry, but this always sounds like lip service to me. The WT has even made this "spiritual truth" dry, impersonal, external. The bible even says that even our words are inadequate when we pray, that the spirit "translates" our heart, so to speak, to make it acceptable (still a metaphor) So why would anyone think that adding at the end "thru/in Jesus' name" makes the prayer more legit?

  Will
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  LittleToe

  My prayers were always "rubber-stamped" with Jesus name.
  That all changed after my "rebirth".

  It was after that that I discovered the changed "mediator" doctrine, and when I voiced this one to some of the other Elders they thought I was wrong.
  After checking they came back and said that I was right (Doh!! ), but they were happy with the new understanding.
  I guess they really don't get the implications of it, huh?

  If I recall correctly it was changed in '89.

  Will:
  I think you're looking for John 17:5:

  "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." KJV

  "And now, Father, glorify me with your very own splendor, The very splendor I had in your presence Before there was a world." "The Message"

  "So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." NWT

  Interestingly, in this context, is the statement at John 16:12-16.
  I quote in the NWT, because even in their translation it refutes their own doctrines:

  "I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming. That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to YOU. All the things that the Father has are mine. That is why I said he receives from what is mine and declares [it] to YOU. In a little while YOU will behold me no longer, and, again, in a little while YOU will see me."
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  Mulan

  I don't think the average JW is aware of it.

  I was informed at book study in the late '70's I think. The conductor corrected me and told me Jesus was the mediator for the 144,000. I should have woke up right then and there. It didn't make sense to me, but I kept on.................

  Little Toe, did they change it again in '89?
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  edge3

  The mediator doctrine is one of the issues that helped me see JWs are not a Christian group.
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  LittleToe

  Mulan:
  I'll stand corrected, but I thought it was in a "Question From Readers the Writing Department" in '89 that they first put it in print.
  I'm in the office, so I have no access to WT CDRom.
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  Will Power

  This doctrine is also recorded in the blue AID book under Mediator. copyright 1971

  page 1130

  "While Jesus' mediatorship operates solely toward those in the new covenant."

  For the other sheep Jesus is described as their high priest.
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  Sargon

  I missed all this. It's been a long time since I studied but i thought that by praying THROUGH Jesus we were acknowledging that HE was our mediator. What am I missing here??