Do all informed JW's deny the man Christ Jesus as their mediator?

by hooberus 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Will Power

  the boat

  you left the ark

  lol
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  Sentinel

  In my opinion, Jesus lived his life to show and teach mankind that we humans have a divine connection; and that the most important thing we can do is to show love and compassion to our fellow man. In that life, he lived as a human and died as a human. If indeed the resurrection occured, it occured to show that the soul is reborn again, but not in the same body. These bodies are mere hosts. To understand those teachings would mean that the follower would accept that he had a connection to the divine. It is through this "connection" that understanding comes. Even at that, his ideals were considered blasphemus to religious leaders of the day. He was born, and his soul (which had already received it's divine rewards) lived in the body of Jesus on this earth. His death showed us how very frail this human life is, and how important it is to know the soul and understand the part we play in the journey. It is the soul that bears protecting.

  Religion has crusified the truth about the purpose of Jesus. We have to struggle now ourselves and have faith that Jesus message regarding life now, and life later with the divine, can change our lives. Religion even managed to create the hellfire doctrine. Man has and continues to be his own worse enemy. Things done for control and power.

  The worse enemy we have is ourselves and our conscience, if we have lived against what it tells us. The enemy is not a creature with horns; it is not this Satan. Discover for yourselves the flagrant lies, one heaped upon the other, and you will not only be free of JW's, but you will be free to be your self.

  /<
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  OHappyDay

  1 Timothy 2:5

  The current JW understanding of that text is based on a "legal" or business meaning of the Greek word for "mediator." But it is not proved that Paul had only a "legal" meaning in mind when he wrote, especially when he tied the word "mediator" with the phrase "ransom for ALL," not just for 144.000.

  But neither do Paul's words indicate that Jesus is now a "man" in heaven. He was a man when he gave his life as the mediator, that was Paul's reference in the verse. Jesus was able to be the mediator precisely because he was a man. But Paul is not implying that Jesus is still a man up in heaven. Greek scholars point out that the word for "man" in this verse is an anarthrous noun (noun without the definite article "the"), emphasizing again the relationship between his status as a human and his mediatorship: he was human at the time when he gave his life as a ransom.

  Therefore, I do not accept the WT doctrine that Jesus is mediator only for 144,000, but neither do I accept the doctrine that Jeus is still a man up in heaven.
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  Sargon

  Darn Will You're right... the good ship watchtower went sailing without even throwing good old Sargon a life line. I still got the anchor to prove it!!
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  Hapgood

  I didn't find out that Jesus as our mediator is denied to most JW's until I visited "apostate" sites. Wow, was that a shocker to me. The Watchtower sure doesn't have this view stated very clearly in their literature if the average JW does not know about this. I showed my hubby, he didn't know this either. Didn't do anything to change his mind though, he's still a loyal JW. But to me when I found out that the JW's taught this I found it shocking.

  Hapgood
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  hooberus

  OHappyDay said:

  But neither do Paul's words indicate that Jesus is now a "man" in heaven. He was a man when he gave his life as the mediator, that was Paul's reference in the verse. Jesus was able to be the mediator precisely because he was a man. But Paul is not implying that Jesus is still a man up in heaven. Greek scholars point out that the word for "man" in this verse is an anarthrous noun (noun without the definite article "the"), emphasizing again the relationship between his status as a human and his mediatorship: he was human at the time when he gave his life as a ransom.

  Therefore, I do not accept the WT doctrine that Jesus is mediator only for 144,000, but neither do I accept the doctrine that Jeus is still a man up in heaven.

  Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 2:5 that the mediator is (present tense). . . . "the man" Christ Jesus:
  

  "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Timothy 2:5-6

  Paul, also in other places applied Psalm 8:6 (about all things being under mans feet) to Jesus Christ. In these places (1 Corinthians 15:27; Ephesians 1:22) the application is made to Jesus in heaven.

  "What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:" Psalm 8:4-6

  "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him." 1 Corinthians 15:27 "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church," Ephesians 1:22
  
  
  Ths scriptures state that it is a "man" who God will put all things under his feet. This is applied to Jesus Christ in 1 Corinthians 15:27; Ephesians 1:22; Hebrews 2:6-8. Thus the claim that Jesus is not still a man is unscriptural.
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  hooberus

  He was a man when he gave his life as the mediator, that was Paul's reference in the verse. Jesus was able to be the mediator precisely because he was a man.

  You seem to be saying that Jesus is not now the mediator, but that he was (past tense) the mediator. The scriptures however show that Jesus is (present tense) the mediator:

  "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises." Hebrews 8:6
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  Dawn

  I just don't seem right. A "man" who isn't on dirt somewhere, is floating around with invisible angels in the sky. I can't grasp it.

  Gumby: You're thinking one dimensional - you're assuming that "heaven" must be somewhere up in the sky. It may, in fact, be another dimension. It is a proven that there are more dimensions to this universe than the one we live in.
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  Faraon

  I thought that Jesus was either a demigod or a full god who was born inside a human. Not a full human.

  Since the prophecy clearly states that Jesus was supposed to be from the seed of David, but was made from the seed of god, I don´t see how he can he be fully human.