Absolute truth of life's mysteries can not really be proven ..,,right?

by LyinEyes 28 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  LyinEyes

  Last nite I had a talk with a friend of mine on her beliefs of the mysteries of life, death, other life on planets , God, Jesus, etc. She really believes in some of the things she said, others things she is speculating on she admitted.... I admired her open mind to not thinkng she has all the answers. She is not a Christain she said.

  My son and husband sat up for along time, comparing notes , debating on comparing what the Bible says, what scientific evidence, historical evidence says, regarding Jesus. Basically we all agree there was a man named Jesus,,,,,,,,but to PROVE that he was the Son of God,,,,,,,is just basically the opinons of other men.

  Some say they have had experiences , spiritiual awakenings , dreams , or whatever where they KNOW what they believe. I believe this has to do with faith. But you really don't have concrete absolute truth on anything.

  Being raised a JW,,,,,,,,,we had the answers spood feed to us , all of the answers, so it was just natural to THINK that we can know all the answers if we just study. After leaving JW's , I studied different things and compared things to the Bible and was totally lost as to what I believe. The first thing is I can't trust the Bible as a reliable book of total truth. Maybe some of these things happened, maybe they were exaggerated. So....... I go to history........ some historians state the things that Jesus was said to do........others say he was just SAID by his followeres to have done these things and the things he did were not as miraculous as the Bible says they were.

  So darn, the conflicts are all over the place,,,,,,,there is no written thing I have found yet , to believe, because it was all written by men, who have their own personal agenda or beliefs.

  Some say there is a God, a Higher Power, some say there is not one, and they can prove it, both sides of the debate .

  I really don't think anyone can prove anything. Can you even trust your own gut feelings? Can you trust a spiritual awakening,,,,,could it be emotionalism? I guess a person has faith and that is about all I feel you can go with. But it seems too hard to convince someone eles on your basis for belief, most likely it is really impossible , IMO.

  I don' t have faith in anything really ,,,,,not yet anyway. I may never. I think if I ever do,,,,,,,,it will not be anything I have read,,,,,I doubt I will ever accept any written word as truth ever again.

  I have a feeling I may be this way for the rest of my life.........not having one belief one way or the other. If I begin to believe there is a God, then my mind reminds me of reason I think there can't be a God. If there is life after death in some other way, other than Christain beliefs,,,,,I don't understand it.

  Goshhhhhhhh, thinking of all of it is exhausting. Like an never ending game of ping pong.

  So what do you think........do you ,since leaving JW,,,,,,,,feel you have some answers?,,,,none at all..?...and how did you come to your present feelings on the mysteries of life? are you stuck in limbo land of the unknown?
• 

  LittleToe

  Some say they have had experiences , spiritiual awakenings , dreams , or whatever where they KNOW what they believe. I believe this has to do with faith. But you really don't have concrete absolute truth on anything.

  I breathe...

  I don't have all the answers, but I know what I know for me, and I'm not the only one in that boat.
  Is it all up to interpretation? Maybe, but there are so many similarities in this ineffable, "unprovable" "mystery", that it get's hard to discount.

  Dede - try to center and "just be", and work outwards (and inwards) from that.
• 

  LyinEyes

  I was looking forward to your reply Little Toe, as I know you have spoken of your spiritual awakening and you are a believer.

  I do believe that there are alot of people who have this and therefore I dont discredit them for it. My point was you just can't prove it absolutly to a non believer , unless they want to believe , or maybe they have it already inside.......maybe that mustard seed of faith there already.

  Like I said,,,,,,,,,,this is just my personal opinion and I sure don't have the answers.

  I really want to be a believer,,,,,and I am working on that. In my own personal life,,,,,,,it is very important to me. But as of yet, I feel kind of stuck in the rut of uncertainity , either way.

  In my case I think it is very important to me to believe in something. I do lean more to Christainity , simply for the fact if someone tries to prove Jesus or God doesnt exsist , I will try to prove He does....then I have no proof to really say why I believe somewhat .

  I know that I have a spiritual void , that needs to be filled........I am sure if I keep searching and keep an open mind and heart, I will find it or it will find me.

  I bet I don't make a lick of sense,,,,,,,,,this is hard to put into words , because of the feelings I have on this subject. But I hope it makes some sense........at least that I am confused.....huh?
• 

  LittleToe

  Dede:You make perfect sense
  Please, let me relate a true story that I recently heard (and I apologise for any errors, as I only heard it once):

  A missionary to Africa was walking through a village and saw a small boy, who smiled at him.
  He reached into his pocket and offered him a wrapped sweet (boiled candy).

  The boy didn't know what to do, as he'd never seen one before, and was reluctant to even take it.
  Yet, after some encouragement he took it, and asked what he should do with it.
  The missionary said that he should open the paper and unwrap it, which revealed a small sweet.
  After further encouragement the boy eventually put the sweet in his mouth, and he broke into the largest grin.
  After a wee while the sweet dissolved, and the boy eventually made his way home.

  When he arrived home his father asked him what he had been doing, to which he replied that he saw the new man, and was given a "something".
  His father asked what it was, to which the boy replied that it was something that had to be unwrapped, and put in the mouth.

  His father than asked what it tasted like, to which the boy replied that it was sweet - REALLY sweet.

  HIs father then attempted to get a description from him, suggesting various fruits such as mange, banana, etc., to understand what this strange "something" tasted like.
  The boy, in frustration continued to explain that it tasted like none of them, that it was even sweeter.

  Finally the boy ran out of the house, and away to find the missionary.
  When he got there he asked if he might have another "something", to which the missionary replied "of course, but why?".
  The boy said "I want my father to taste it, because I can't describe it".

  .

  Faith is like that. Tangible but inexplicable.
  You can read all you like about it, but until you taste it...
• 

  LyinEyes

  Great illustration LT. I enjoyed that. I am trying to keep an open mind , well actually more than an open mind,,,,,,,,,I guess since healing from JW's, I can say I have a clean slate to start on. I am on my search , a little at a time. I know that for me, I wont have all the answers in a few weeks of studing the Live Forever book....lol.

  I guess all of this is on my mind so much the last two days, because of all the talk in the house of Jesus and the movie,,,,,,,The Passion.

  We are going to see it tonite ,,,,,,,,,, I am excited and anxious to feel what my response to it will be.

  I will let you know.
• 

  Sirius Dogma

  LyinEyes,

  I bet I don't make a lick of sense,,,,,,,,,

  Almost everything you said makes perfect sense, at least to me. I share your opinions on the bible - that it was simply a book written by men. Also about Jesus, that he was man, the rest about him we may never know. Is there a god or gods? Who knows. Growing up a witness myself, I have always wanted to cling to a belief system because I had always had one before. Then I realized that it is perfectely fine to admit that some questions don't have answers and might never . I would rather simply say 'I don't know what happens after death' rather than choose to believe some story a nomad made up about it a few thousand years ago. I mean if I wanted to believe in some made up story, I would believe in a much better story myself.

  Anyway, I wanted to say I like your attitude when you wrote :

  I have a feeling I may be this way for the rest of my life.........not having one belief one way or the other.

  I think that is courageous, not many people have the spiritual fortitude to take this less traveled road.
• 

  LyinEyes

  The road I am traveling on is going to be one where I dont know where I end up at all. I am like a hobo just going where the road ( or train I jumped hehe ) takes me.

  At the end of the yellow brick road......oh wrong story there.........will there be a wise Wizard, or just a man? Will there be nothing.......total darkness and I fade away ? will I turn into a dung beetle? will I come back as the future Queen of England( that wouldnt be so bad)??? Or will I go to Heaven and get to find out what I wanted to know while alive?

  I really hope that I can go to Heaven,,,,,,,,I want to see my Mother and Grandmother again. And if I were in Heaven.....then I would know that the Jesus I loved so much as a kid, a JW is real and true after all.
• 

  Carmel

  Lying, I admire your honest and healthy skepticism. I remember the time after I left the Borg when I was going to many churches to try and find "truth". I had no idea how much of my criteria of what truth was was conditioned by my preconcieved notions drummed into me by growing up as a little dubbie. It took nearly eighteen years out of the borg, two college degrees and living in the world of comerce and academia to shed much of the crap. I thought I was fair and unbiased but my ability to trust or even to consider the claims of others with strong beliefs was so conditioned with skepticism, I couldn't move on in life. A brief stint into partisan politics gave me an understanding of just how blind I could be to others point of view. But most of all, traveling and experiancing first hand other cultures, appreciating how others had perfectly wonderful lives built upon completely different paradigms of religious thought and political/economic systems jolted me into seeing how humans need to see each other as all part of one family. My ability to accept my gut feelings and ideas about the existence of an inteligent loving creator behind the ordered universe gradually coalesed as I was introduced to religious ideas that were inclusive rather than exclusive, that made sense out of the plethora of ideas rather than ranking them became more believable each day. Now I can see the validity in the "true believer" and in the skeptic as well as the complete atheist without it threatening my own views and who I am.

  I hope you are able to sort out the wheat from the chaff..

  carmel
• 

  Celtic

  I've been reading Ecclesiastes a few times recently, I have to say, I agree with a lot of it. Tis all chasing after the wind, tis quite futile. Or so it seems.

  And so, I question more, I arrive at an answer, that immediately divides like a cell, and gives me two more options, I choose the one, I end up in a paradoxical state, I choose the other wishing then that I'd chosen another, and so life goes on, like endless reams of mathematical code.

  Who can say if its this way or that way or the other way round? Then hold up a mirror to the question and the answers, then see what you get.

  Enough to send you within the realms of banality, madness, un-sanity.

  Life is simple, it's only us individually that complicate it all, life, life itself is

  Celtic
• 

  Undecided

  LyinEyes,

  You are not by yourself, I feel almost identical to your thoughts expressed here. Where I end up in my faith I have not the slightest idea. I will continue to look and feel as I go toward death, and find out the real truth about God, or not find out.

  Ken P.