Need some advice/input for a possible "showdown."

by robhic 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  robhic

  Thanks to all for such useful and insightful information. You all make very good and valid points. Just a small background that might answer a few questions. The girl I am involved with has been a JW since 2000 and we've been together since 1998. She converted 2 years after we were together. We are also both handicapped, her more seriously -- almost home-bound -- since 2002, so revoking her "priviledges" is a moot point. She hasn't been to the KH, a convention or anything for well over a year.

  I am not absolutely positive that any wedding will take place. This was just a preliminary discussion and I was more concerned as to what I should do if talked into the "discussion" with the Pioneer. At this point, it looks like that might not fly because she decided she would want to do it at her house, just the 2 of us. I think that might be to prevent my girlfriend from hearing my questions and the Pioneer's dogmatic, bullshit-based explanations. I don't think I'm going to do that unless everybody is present. This was to be a learning experience -- for both of us.

  Thanks again for all the input. You've all given me something to think about, especially Garybuss who does conjure up some explicit images with his reply!!! I hate dentistry and proctological dentistry sounds even worse. I guess I'll wait and see how this shapes up and then, if needed, just put on my best smile, warmest personality and try to keep everybody focused on any question I raise and the proof that I will demand. Not just "because it says so in the WT..."

  Robert
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  blondie

  BTW Robert, female JWs are not supposed to be alone with a male person they are "witnessing" to. They should be in a public place or another person should be there. I would insist that your girlfriend be present if only for that reason.

  Blondie
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  aunthill

  Hi Rob,

  Definitely your girlfriend should be present during the discussion. It sounds to me like the Pioneer friend is concerned that she may not be able to answer your questions and cause doubts in your girlfriend's mind.

  As far as marrying her, I agree with Gary, so I am posting some thoughts here that I posted for another guy considering marrying a JW (I don't know if having children would be an option for the two of you, but in the event it is, I have included my comments about children):

  I got married, then became a JW, but my husband didn't. Let me tell you this: Love is NOT enough. I loved my husband, but the Watchtower Society, very subtly, tries to tear marriages between JWs and non-JWs apart. I speak from 25 years of experience. I was very lucky that my husband didn't leave me (or maybe that I didn't leave him) but those 25 years I was in the WT, our marriage was a living hell. Fortunately he was there when I finally came to my senses, and the past 10 years have been wonderful, bless his heart for hanging in there.

  You can go ahead and marry her and learn by bitter experience the truth of my, and others who have posted here, words - or you can take a breather and think about exactly what you want for your life.

  1. Do you want constant strife and conflict that will inevitably come because she believes one way and you don't?

  2. Do you ever want to face the possibility that your child may be ill and need a blood transfusion but your wife is totally opposed, and may leave you if you authorize a transfusion, or that your child may die because you are afraid she would leave you if you granted a transfusion?

  3. Do you want to NEVER celebrate Christmas (and other holidays) as a family. Or do you want to go have Christmas with your family, or to do as my husband did, take the kids to your parents' house for Christmas, while she stays (disapprovingly) at home. I'm here to tell you that it's no fun for either of you and just creates more friction.

  There are so many other situations that come up in a "divided" household, and that is what it is, divided, that I can't begin to list them all. On the subject of "divided," a man and woman are supposed to cleave to each other and become one. Their purpose is to be united, and united in rearing their children if they have any. If one is a JW, and the other is not, there is no way they can be united, rather, they are "untied" and everyone in the family suffers, being pulled in different directions.

  I urge you to not rush into anything, but to take time and think logically about everything that has been said. When we rush into something because of an emotional need we tend to not look at the larger picture, but to consider only the emotional void inside of us rather than the effect it will have on the rest of our life.
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  FirstInLine

  Just pretend to be a JW, marry her and then stop going. My dad did it and it worked for 28 years.
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  WhyNow2000

  black lady, very nice in her mid 50's

  Well... that changes everything on your approach. How black is she? Is she skinny or fat? What about you? Are you black?

  I just dont understand how this is related to your question.
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  simplesally

  At least its not a white man, very mean and in his 20's.
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  WhyNow2000

  It is like saying:
  

  My gf who is white in her late 20's slightly underweight, shoes size 6 want to know what day is tomorrow.

  Did I gorget to mention she is white with a hint of indian?
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  got my forty homey?

  Christian Freedom is a great book to get points to debate a witness. I even have had my Father crossed up and he his an elder for over 25 years. And I found that once the voices start getting raised and tempers start to flare, just forget about it and change the subject.
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  robhic

  black lady, very nice in her mid 50's

  Well... that changes everything on your approach. How black is she? Is she skinny or fat? What about you? Are you black?

  I just dont understand how this is related to your question.

  I apologize if this comment offended anyone. I suppose this is a valid point. The race, at least, makes no difference but, IMO, a lady in her mid 50's could be a substantially different opponent than a younger, inexperienced person (OK, woman or man...) in their 20's. Isn't it? Since I am 50 I guess the age, specifically, seemed relevant as would the gender but race is, agreed, not.

  An older person who had been a Pioneer for many years and a JW for 30-50 years would be, again IMO, a more formidable challenge than a young girl in her early 20's who had Pioneered for a couple of years. I was just relaying information and didn't think my initial comment thru as far as relevance. Sorry.

  Anyway, it looks as if the discussion ain't gonna happen that way. The Pioneer told my friend that she wasn't going to discuss Charles Russell and other early JW things. I don't know why and I didn't mention those things in the first place. I had a general doctrinal discussion in mind based on my reading and some research mainly from the "What Does God Require of Us?" book. I really wanted to hear the explanation for 1914...

  Robert
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  dustyb

  my stupid 19 year old suggestion is to see how much knowledge you have in common between doctrines and practices and changes over the years. if she's been a JW all her life, then she should know most of what you know. and when you push her to the limit, go a bit further and ask her questions that she doesn't know and then quit............