Need Input! Overcoming Active JW Objections re: Letter on UN Website

by imallgrowedup 32 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    The letter the UN posted on their site regarding the WT affiliation with the UN is great news! Kudos to everyone who made this possible by taking the time to write the UN!

    Although most on JWD see this as a big victory, most have expressed that there will probably be many active JW's who will find it suspicious or will turn a blind eye. Since many of us will be sharing this letter with our loved ones who are still in the borg, we are bound to come across obejctions. I thought it would be a good idea for all of us to stick our heads together and come up with our own version of "Reasoning From the Scriptures," whereby we think of any objection an active JW may have, and come up with various suggestions on how to overcome those objections. I know that it would be helpful for me to see some ideas, and I thought others could benefit as well.

    Here is my .02:

    Objection: Apostates hacked into the UN website and posted it.

    Possible Response: You can bet The Society knows about this letter. There is no way The Society would stand for this being made public if it were not true. If this were bogus, they certainly would have contacted the UN by now and it would have been removed. Just to be sure, you may want to check the site again in a week or so to see if it is still there. If it is, then you will know that it was not placed there by hackers.

    Other Possible Responses: Ideas, anyone?!

    ***

    Objection: It's no big deal.

    Possible Response: Ideas, anyone?!

    ***

    Anything else anyone can think of - or has already come across - that they'd like some input on or can offer as a suggestion to someone else? Let's try to get a "How To List" going here!

    (don't tell Yeru I used his smiley!)

    growedup

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere
    Objection: It's no big deal.

    Then why did the WTS stumble all over itself to "disassociate" from the UN once it became public? If there was nothing wrong with it then they would not have removed their membership.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Objection: It is no big deal.

    Possible Answers: So WHO IS the harlot in Revelation, just so we are both clear on that?

    Have another cookie.

    ...so I guess it was really "no big deal" when the Catholic Church associated with the UN. Remind me again why the JW's are so different?

    Objection: stunned silence.

    Possible Answers: I will let you mull on that for a little while. When you are ready, get back to me.

  • avishai
    avishai
    Objection: Apostates hacked into the UN website and posted it.

    Possible response: You're a paranoid dumbass.

  • SYN
    SYN

    Good thread!

    Objection: Apostates hacked into the UN website and posted it.
    Possible Response: Right! Yes, there is a vanishingly small possibility that this happened. However, it could be corrected by a simple phone call to the United Nations asking them if this document was authored by them. There's a handy phone number in the letter itself! Why not have a chat with them about who wrote the letter, and why they wrote it?

    Objection: It's no big deal.
    Possible Response: Wrong! This is a VERY big deal. For decades, the Watchtower harped on about how the United Nations (and previously the League of Nations) were both essentially manifestations of Satan, or THE HARLOT. They don't paint a very pretty picture of the UN in their literature, pre-1992. After that, all of a sudden, they started to talk about how wonderful the UN's various programs are, and at regular intervals! Isn't it odd how you have to re-apply once a year to be a UN NGO? And that they would've needed material to show the UN each year, proving that they were still worth of being an NGO? The Governing Body definitely knew about the whole thing - it wasn't just the doing of one man. All of the highest-ranking Witnesses had to know about it, in order for such drastic changes to have been made to the publications.

  • imallgrowedup
    imallgrowedup

    Excellent responses! Thanks for posting your ideas!

    LOL @ Avi:

    Objection: Apostates hacked into the UN website and posted it.
    Possible response: You're a paranoid dumbass.

    Here are some other objections I stole from the original thread started by jgnat. If anyone else can think of objections and/or responses, please list them!

    Objection: Jehovah is USING the United Nations to prove his sovereignty.

    Objection: They MUST have been tricked into joining in order to get into the library or in order to get literature into countries where they are taxed such as France.

    Objection: ... this [is an] example of theocratic warfare.

    Objection: Oh well if they didn't make it up, some apostates must be working for the UN against us.

    Objection: They must have become an NGO for a good reason.

    Objection: We should not question ... god's wife like organization, lets just leave it in [Jehovah's] hands.

    Objection: Maybe ... a UN-Watchtower alliance as a good thing, despite the official policy.

    Objection: Maybe by supporting the agenda of the UN they were bringing Armageddon just that much closer.

    ***

    Any other objections or suggestions on how to answer them?!

    Inquiring Minds (as always!) Want to Know!

    growedup

  • bebu
    bebu

    That kind of denial needs to be hit straight on.

    It seems to me that if you get pure BS for an excuse, you can really open the throttle:

    "THIS IS THE MOST BLATANT HYPOCRACY I'VE SEEN IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, BAR NONE!! IT BEATS EVERYTHING THAT THE CATHOLICS HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF DOING!! I CAN'T THINK OF ITS EQUIVALENT ANYWHERE IN POLITICS (AND THAT'S SAYING SOMETHING!)! YOU SHOULD BE SEETHING WITH ANGER AND OUTRAGE!!! YOU HAVE BEEN THE VICTIM OF FRAUD IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!"

    Hard heads need knocking! I wouldn't let anyone get away with any of those pathetic excuses.

    bebu

  • asleif_dufansdottir
    asleif_dufansdottir
    Objection: They MUST have been tricked into joining in order to get into the library or in order to get literature into countries where they are taxed such as France.

    Even if the society joined the UN with good intentions - if the society could be tricked into joining the UN (handy scans of pages from old literature that blasts the UN and all who support it would be good here), then how on earth could you trust anything they say??

    Joining the UN should have been the last thing the society would ever do! Look how clearly they have condemned the UN and all who support it!

    If they could be tricked into supporting the UN after they said that, then they can be tricked by Satan into anything, and you can't trust a word they say!

  • Quotes
    Quotes

    Objection (My Mother actually used this): "Well, if it's true, that's the biggest BOO BOO I've ever heard of.


    Response: (Exasperated sigh upon realizing how ready Mom is "ignore the rafter in her own eye, while busily ridiculing the splinter in other's eyes)




    OK, now for real...





    Response:That violates the scriptural principle of "a house divided can not stand". The UN has been identifed as an agent of Satan, not an agent of Jehovah.





    Response: A brother is seen leaving a legal (in Nevada) brothel, i.e. a house of prostitution. There is a sign on the building "LEGAL BROTHEL. HAVE SEX HERE. GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS". Brothers have been warned for years to stay away from that house of ill-repute. But then... an elder is seen leaving the place, and eye witnesses indicate he was in there for quite some time (say, nine years, whoops, I mean nine hours). Would anyone believe him if he said:

    (a) I was tricked to go in there, I thought it was just a bar! Damn those tricksters!

    (b) It became a brothel while I was inside. When I entered, it was just a bar. When I went in there, 9 hours ago, there was nothing wrong with going in there.

    (c) Of COURSE its a brothel. I went in there to witness to the ladies and gentlemen inside. It is the only way to reach them with the Kingdom message. I call is spiritual warfare. Sometimes I have to have sex with the women, but that is still OK, because it is spirtitual warfare! Oh, and I wanted to keep it secret and not tell anyone because...... um..... they might be confused by my spiritual warfare.... yeah, that's the ticket!





    Response: see previous point. Add: if that were the case, then why stop the NGO association when it becomes public knowledge? The war is still going on, and whatever could be gained by having NGO association could continue right up until the UN decides to dissassociate the Watchtower. If it was such a good, clever, strategy, why did the Watchtower terminate it earlier than necessary? Sorry, that one doesn't pass the smell test.





    Response: In other words, I conspiracy of just a few rogue individuals working within a large organization. Possible (although unlikely). Easy to determine: contact the UN yourself. Tell them that one of their web dudes has posted some libellous
    information. See how fast they remove it (if indeed they DO remove it). Then phone Watchtower Legal Dept. and tell them that the
    UN has published (or allowed some rogue employees to publish) libellous information on their website defaming the Society. No, seriously, do this if you really think its the work of some small group of ne'er-do-wells.





    Response: Yes, I suspect they thought they had a good reason, and on behalf of thousands of concerned people, I'd like to hear what it is. So far the Society hasn't provided and GOOD reasons, only lame ones. Please, help me to find out what their GOOD reason was. Clearly, the library excuse is neither good nor a reason.





    Response: This violates the biblical principal to "flee from her, if you do not want to partake in her sins". It is also a non-sequitor when compared with decades of Watchtower information, which commands people to NOT simply sit idly by as part of an organization which has sided with Satan and against Jehovah. Furthermore, this action clearly identifies Watchtower as NOT truly god's wife-like organization.





    Response: Please elaborate on this. How can an alliance with the wild beast of revelation, the same one that has that whore false relgion riding its back and cooing sweet names, how can this alliance be good? It would be like saying an alliance with the Nazi's would be good, even if it meant you agreed that you stood for the same principles of the Nazi party (including Third Reich's Final Solution, etc.). How could this ever be a good thing? How could it NOT be a violation of NEUTRALITY?





    Response: This doesn't make sense at so many levels. It's not Watchtower's place to "bring Armageddon closer". Jehovah has his own time. It will not change becuase of the actions of any man, men, or organization. 2nd, why would they want to bring it closer? There are still a lot of people that haven't received "the message", and if you brought the end before they heard, that wouldn't be fair. (BTW, I include in that list of "people who don't know JWs message" pretty much everyone, even those who have had JWs knock on their doors for years; my informal poll of my friends indicates that they have NO IDEA what JWs message is, despite seeing them at their doorstop several times per year, and even taking magazine -- the "Ministry" is just that ineffective. But I digress). Ignoring my first two points, please explain how, HOW, would this happen? What could the Watchtower do, as an NGO, to the UN, or have the UN do to the Watchtower as an NGO, that would possible change the timing of Revelation? (Wait for response; if there is one, it will be pretty far-fetched and non-sensicial. Then ask, "Do you really think that Jehovah directed this organization to do that, and if he did, why then did Watchtower quit the UN -- after word got out?
  • gumby
    gumby
    Although most on JWD see this as a big victory, most have expressed that there will probably be many active JW's who will find it suspicious or will turn a blind eye.

    Braindead, I wanna live forever, please don't make me doubt, I like what I believe dubbers.......will never let a little UN thingy sway their loyal dub hearts. If the 1995 "generation change" didn't wake them up, and Dateline, and Silentlambs, and ALL the other exposer doesn't make them use their brains unlike a "Stepford" wife robot........then the will probly die dubs.

    Don't get me wrong......thousands..... have exited from the help and loving efforts of those mentioned and that's great! But I never get my hopes up for a mass exodus from a dub scandle being exposed.

    Gumby

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit