No stumbling block

peacefulpete

I felt it would be helpful to understand just how the WT is misapplying Ps 119:165. If you are a person new to this board or only recently having questions please read this carefully and thoughtfully.

The verse in discussion says." Great peace have they that love thy law, and there is no stumbling for them." The WT and other groups have used this verse to suggest that if a person is a 'true lover of God' he will never leave the group that believes itself to be the agency of god. This in effect implies that questioning the authority or behavior of the religion is an indication that the person has a bad heart. This is a standard tactic of high control groups. As a JW I was taught that no matter what the organization said or did or whatever injustice I suffered at the hands of those within it, I was never justified to leave. I remember those that did and how this verse would inevitbly be applied to the situation, saying that apparently the one who left did not "truly love jehovah and the truth!".

But lets take a better look at the verse. Ps 119 is the song a person who is confused about what is happening to him and the injustice around him but is convinced that YHWH will in the end ensure his safety and wellbeing if he just dutifully and committedly keeps the Torah. Repeatedly he says he loves the Torah and instruction and then follows by insisting YHWH preserve him alive and protect him from "anykind of hurtful thing".(vs17,25,45,93,107,149,156,159,129-33).

Verse 165 can now be looked at in it's context. It again says, "Great peace have they that love the Law,". The word here translated "peace" means "safety, soundness,secure,welfare". This is consistant with the rest of the Psalm that foremost is concerned with being protected from harm and enemies. So the first part of the verse means, "security and safety is for those who love your law".

The second half of the verse says, "And there is no stumbling for them." The word translated stumbling or stumbling block at times is literal (Lev.19:4) but generally is an idiomatic expression meaning something that causes harm as in injuries suffered in a fall. YHWH is said to be "putting stumbling blocks" before his enemies to destroy them. Jer 6:21, Ez. 3:20 for example connect the stumbling block with death. This definition is most consistant with the theme of the Psalm and immediate context where it is contrasted with "peace/safety".

Therefore the author of these words meant only that he believed that his safety was ensured by keeping the Torah and that no harmful thing would happen to him, either from YHWH or his enemies.

Many other Psalms express similar belief that YHWH would protect and preserve those who keep the Torah.

Noone should remain in an unhealthy and abusive relationship in an effort to prove the depth of love. Any group that suggests that it's members do the same to prove something to God has very low respect for people and human rights. And those that misuse this Psalm to support that position are poor students of the Bible to boot.

willyloman

Pete: Thanks for the morning text. Inspiring and helpful.

cyber-sista

Interesting...I have thought about that one myself. I was recently questioned by somebody with a good knowledge of religion. I had mentioned the "stumbling block" thing and he felt this was something that was specifically a JW teaching, though I am not sure about this because the majority of my religious training has been by the Org.

When I was having problems with my faith because of mistreatment,injustice and many other things to boot that whole stumbling block thing was thrown in my face several times. It is strange that suddenly it becomes your fault when you are hurt by injustice inflicted upon you. One JW told me that there is no stumbling block if you have enough faith. Another questioned me by saying "Are you going to allow this to be a stumbling block to you?" An elder told me "I know you have been stumbled, but blah blah blah"...

Is this whole stumbling block thing just another JW doctrine? It is a very strange one when you think about it. It was used over and over again and there were many illustrations around it. I remember the one about the brother who falls down in the parking lot, but doesn't get up because he has been stumbled and how silly it is for this one to not get up after he has been stumbled and how would we feel about someone who just continued to lay there year after year...it made the stumbled person look like an idiot...

peacefulpete

Cybersis...I remember one person using the verse in a way similar to JWs, he was baptist or Pentecostal. He wasn't applying it as narrowly as the JWs hwever, as he applied it to belief in general. The verse however was misapplied none the less.

It is tragic how someone who has been hurt is made to feel guilty for recognizing that something is wrong. The problem with the illustration is that the person who just lays down and refuses to help himself is actually the JW who is hurt yet remains in the environment that caused the hurt. The person that fell and gets up and steps away from the icy porch is like the person who sees what caused the hurt and walks away from it.

Narkissos

Good point PP: intimidation in exegesis successfully deconstructed.

However, even the original meaning of the text may be criticized: "no harm to the faithful" is just contrary to fact. Such as Psalm 37:25 "I have been young, and now am old, yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken or their children begging bread," commonly read as a pretext to look upon necessarily "unrighteous" beggars...

Coming back to the "stumbling block" (skandalon) in a different way, it's amazing how JWs AND many Christians have regularly interpreted the Gospels' stern warning against skandala (Mark 9:42ff and par.) as a justification to the most shivery ecclesiastical policy: always careful not to "stumble" the most scrupulous and narrow-minded inside the congregation, given them as a matter of fact the last word upon anything, and resulting in a very hypocritical talk (as we can see, for instance, in the fact that modern Bible study has scarcely modified the current catechism and teaching in churches). Whereas the text warns the disciples against "stumbling" those on the outside by their own narrow-mindedness...

rem

I remember doing a word study on "stumbling" for my first (and last) public talk. I thought it was interesting that the word means (in addition to literal falling) "cause to sin". So really, being stumbled is quite a serious matter, whereas it seems that many use the term to describe merely being offended.

I argued that we should not make rules in the congregation based on the fact that some people may be "stumbled" in this collequial way. Being offended at a decision your brother made that may go against your conscience (but is not unscriptural) is not the same as being stumbled, so butt out of other people's business!

Some of the elders didn't really like my talk. :)

rem

peacefulpete

Rem you're complicating the thread. In the context of Ps 165 the word does not mean 'cause to sin'. In a couple passages in the prophets the idiom "stumbling" is used metaphorically to refer to 'something that induces sin' being that sin was being illustrated in terms of a fall causing harm.

I was hoping to focus on the one passage and the author's intended meaning because of it's abusive interpretation that haunts the minds of many who leave the JWs.

rem

Sorry. :P

rem

Wallflower

This has been quoted to myself as a scripture that states you must not challange the Org. Thanks for enlightening me. Are there scriptures that say the opposite, so could be used as a counter argument? That you must challange your faith to be certain that it is the right one?

peacefulpete

Wallflower...I have come to understand that the very idea of a "True Religion" is part of our cult programming. But there are verses in the Bible that at least give lip service to the idea of personally investigating the facts. The Wt of course likewise tells people that they must scrutinize their beliefs and arrive at logical conclusions. However out of the other side of the mouth insisting that those within the group reprove those with doubts and avoid material not coming from themselves.

A few verses that come to mind if dealing with a bible believing JW are, 1 John 4:1, 1 Thess 5:21, Acts 17:11, Rom:12:2,Prov 14:15.

No stumbling block

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