To those with "ears" to "hear"...

by AGuest 52 Replies latest jw friends

  • logical
    logical

    I dont know what to believe any more. I wish I did.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Hey Logi, how's it going?

    Where are you on your journey?
    Feel free to PM, if you don't want to post publically.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    and as always, the greatest of love and peace to you!

    Please know that I must respond in truth to what you said... and say that yes, you do know WHAT to believe... and indeed in WHOM.. for you yourself have taught such truth. It is the continually EXERCISE of that "faith", however, that is sometimes most difficult. Why? Because this world is designed to hammer not only our flesh, but our spirit. However, since we are still yet fleshly, we sometimes tend to need something... or somebody... that we can SEE with our flesh... or HEAR with our flesh... to follow.

    But you know that it is NOT to be like that. Do not, then, look to ANY others... but only to the One. Try to walk by faith, dear one, and not sight. For if you continue to walk by sight, you will not "see", for we are, all of us, still in darkness. Walk then, by means of the VOICE of the One that you must learn to HEAR... and follow him. And remember that no one can do this for you... but you. Thus, you must start with you... and him... alone. For HE... will NEVER leave YOU... and truly, there is no one else.

    May JAH's undeserved kindness and mercy be upon you... and may His Son and Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, our Lord, grant you his peace.

    Your servant and fellow slave of Christ... still...

    SJ

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    AGeust--- You may not be a follower of the apostle Paul but he was chosen directly from God as a prophet and an apostle to teach and preach about the kingdom of the heavens and how to worship in conjuction with it.

    You are correct, dear one, I do not follow Paul. I cannot.

    Matthew 23:10

    You are also correct that Paul was chosen as an apostle, but his apostleship was to the nations. Thus, my faith is not built on "Paul", but on the foundation cornerstone that is the Christ, and the 12 apostles, of which Paul was not one, and the prophets before him. I am of the House of Benjamin, an Israelite for a certainty.

    With that being said, please do not think that I discredit Paul... or what he taught. I have NO problem with his teachings, and even the ones where he was in error (some of which he corrected). Unfortunately, it is you... and many like you... who misinterpret, misunderstand or misstate what Paul said... and meant... on many occasions... and/or assume that all he taught was given him by holy spirit. I bid you: read what Paul himself said on occasion about his... ummmm... "opinions".

    Paul... was like the 12 before him... in his view of women. But my Lord was NOT so and in fact WELCOMED those who the disciples tried to keep from coming to him, women AND children alike. I have respect for Paul, because by means of also being an Israelite as well as by means of holy spirit, he is my brother. But it is by means of the teachings of Paul that I have learned how to worship God, but instead by means of the spirit of God that is me, holy spirit, which spirit teaches me.

    For you to suggest that I should from anyone else, in any other way... is what goes against that which is written in both the Hebrew AND Greek writings.

    You do argue the same way the WTBTS does on the issue

    If you believe so. Though, I cannot possibly imgaine how you can see this as so when, for example, the WTBTS forbids women to be "ministerial servants," while Paul actually recommended Phoebe as one. (But, then, they don't even understand what a "ministerial servant" actually is... or even what it means to be ministered TO... or what an "overseer" is... and... and... and...)

    But, again, if you believe so...

    but I can not deny what is written as being just as important as the rest of the gospel .

    But you are in fact denying it. You are literally denying what is stated by God, Christ, and the Apostles John and Peter, as well as by Paul, himself. Literally. Why? Because you have been misled to believe that PAUL is the "authority"... and not the Holy Spirit. And even PAUL said, "Not that we are masters over your faith." But, like many, you fail to discern the truth of THAT statement, as well.

    Jesus does look for faith where ever he can find it but if you remember after he was resurected he did not allow women to touch him

    Did not "allow" women to "touch" him? You mean, when he told Mary not to cling to him? Oh, dear one! What he MEANT was for her not to get reattached EMOTIONALLY to him, because even though he had been resurrected... to her GREAT joy... he was really going to go away... for WAY more than three days, this time! (Hmmm... perhaps you'd have to be a woman to truly understand his statement there. One wouldn't think so, though... not with the Holy Spirit to teach you the truth of it. Ah, well...)

    but later the apostle thomas was permited to touch the wounds on his body. There are different rules that apply before and after his resurection . We could discuss the issue forever but if you are going to discredit most of the new testament then it is pointless.

    I won't discredit much of the new testament, and we can certainly discuss this issue, for I would like to expound the way of the truth about it more clearly to you, if you will permit me:

    I have explained the words of my Lord to the woman, Mary. She, however, didn't NEED to touch him in the way that Thomas did, for SHE... simply upon hearing his VOICE... KNEW him. She KNEW who he was... didn't need PROOF of it... and DEMONSTRATED HER FAITH by such ready knowledge and acceptance. On the OTHER hand... Thomas... a MAN... said he WOULDN'T believe... unless he saw. Who, then, LACKED FAITH? The WOMAN? or the MAN?

    The WOMEN... ALWAYS demonstrated their faith: they stayed with my Lord until he took his last breath... AND were there when his body was taken down... AND... PREPARED that body for burial. I ask you: where were the MEN? I'll let you look that up, because I think the TRUTH might be a bit too painful for you right now.

    The MEN... followed my Lord because of what they SAW. They CONTINUALLY put him to the test. They CONTINUALLY demonstrated their lack of faith (i.e., questioning him, denying him, betraying him...). The woman followed... and asked nothing. In fact, prior to my Lord telling the MEN that just as he washed THEIR feet, THEY should wash one another's... a WOMAN was HIS... with her TEARS... and dried them with her HAIR.

    And I could go on and on and on. The woman with the flow of blood... he commended her faith the same as he did the Army officer. The Phonecian woman with the sick daughter... he commended her faith the same as he did the father of the epileptic.

    Please do not think I am shouting, for I am not. I am only emphasizing. And one thing that I wish to emphasize to YOU is that you homo-gender perception of God and Christ is tantamount to the wicked scribes and Pharisees who "shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men." THEY... wished to determine upon whom God showed mercy... just as men who think like YOU do. GOD... chooses whom He calls! Thus, the word of Joel that has been fulfilled and is again being fulfilled is:

    "In that day, I will pour out some of MY spirit... upon EVERY sort of flesh... and your sons... AND your DAUGHTERS will prophesy... and even upon my men slaves... AND MY WOMEN SLAVES... I will pour out some of my spirit in those days... and THEY WILL PROPHESY."

    Now, THAT, dear Heathen... is SCRIPTURE.

    YOU may believe that I am here to teach, but nothing could be further from the truth. I am NOT a teacher... nor have I been sent TO teach. I am merely a messenger... a good-for-nothing slave... doing MY Master's will. He sends me; I go. That's it; that's all.

    Further more I am not persecting you...

    So said the scribes and Pharisees... Israel... the "contenders with God,"...

    and did not "curse " you with a scarcastic smilie.

    Indeed, you did. But I took no offense. I simply pointed out your potential... ummmm... "leaven."

    You are free to say and do as you want

    Am I? Why, then, do you state I am not? And you do... saying, among other things, that I am not because I am a woman... and so, "Paul said so"...

    but I also am free to disagree , don't you think?

    Absolutely! (Though I would have to say that if one is going to disagree, having one's facts straight should be important, yes?) I took no offense at your disagreements, dear Heather. Neither did I malign you or treat you with insolence or act unkindly toward you. Quite the opposite: it was you who appeared ready to descend into that "pit". I simply rebutted your comments. Even gave you verses to support. I get the feeling that you didn't read them, though...

    AFA the wheat bread is concerned I think (it's just my opinion now)

    To which you are entitled (but let me tell you, I don't think you originally stated it as simply your opinion, but gave the impression, by means of your "weeds and wheat" comparison, that there was some "law" to it...)

    that if at all possible should be wheat but I also think we need to stay with the program of eating unleaven bread and drinking red wine even though I have yet to do it myself .

    Wait! WAIT! You're attempting to take a "straw" out of someone's eye, when you've still got a RAFTER in YOURS?! How IS that, exactly? You wish to dictate how something... that you have yet to demonstrate the COURAGE to do... is to be done? Dear Heathen... do you understanding the connotation of the word "hypocrite"? How can you advise anyone to "stay with the program," if you yourself are not even a participant IN the "program"? How does that WORK, exactly? Do you truly think that God will shine more "favor" upon you, you who pushes "wheat bread and red wine"... but do not partake of it yourself... than He would upon some who ate unleavened barley bread and drank mere water... but did so IN FAITH... because that was all they had? Do you think perhaps Paul... or some other disciple... while imprisoned, on a ship... in hiding, etc... found God's disapproval because they didn't literally eat wheat bread and drink red wine? Do you not supposed that they ate and drank WHATEVER they could... WHEN they could... in FAITH? Cannot God turn water... TO wine?

    Dear, dear Heathen... the Most Holy One of Israel is not so pendantic as all that. True, if one HAS wheat bread and red wine, one should eat and drink that! But let me tell you a little secret: not everyone's CONSCIENCE will allow them to use red wine... due to alcoholism... and the "scriptural" admonishment against wine, etc. Some... are children (oh, yes, just like Israel in the wilderness, children should eat and drink, too! For it is written: "For the promise is to you AND YOUR CHILDREN... Acts 2:39)

    What do such ones do? They drink.... "unfermented wine"... or... grape juice. Yep, before it was called "Welch's Grape JUICE"... it was called "Welch's UNFERMENTED wine." Why? Because that's exactly what grape juice is: unfermented wine. NEW wine. Which is what my Lord gave his disciples. It's just that TODAY... they add sugar, which wasn't around back then. So... they had to let the "juice" sit...and ferment... in order for it to become "sweet".

    I'm not allergic to wheat bread in fact I prefer wheat bread over other types of bread .

    Well, I am allergic to wheat, and corn, and just about everything else under the sun. I have food allergies up the kazoo! But I usually use "wheat" bread (crackers, really, and bleached wheat, too!) and "kosher" wine (usually Mogen David or Manischwetz). This year, I bought some "seder" grape juice, just because my blood sugar's a bit wacky (I'm a diabetic). But... it doesn't matter; what matter is that I DO eat... that I do so in FAITH... and without "leaven" (hypocrisy).

    Just basing my opinion on the biblical account and nothing else .

    I must ask you, then, to reread the accounts, starting with what the Christ said, before what Paul said. Because even the disciples took issue with Paul where he mistaught on at least one occasion.

    But before you do reread, I ask you to ask God to send the Holy Spirit to "guide" you. For He will that One... and that One WILL guide you... if you ASK...

    Luke 11:13; John 14:13; 15:7

    He... my Lord... the Fine Shepherd... who leads HIS sheep... the Son of God, the glorified Christ, whose name is JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... who became a "life-giving spirit"... and NOT Paul... will guide you into ALL truth.

    John 16:13; 2 Corinthians 3:17

    Have a nice day .

    You, too! And may the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH... of Armies... and the peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be upon you... if you so wish it.

    I am your servant... and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Gal.3:2:
    "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

  • Greenpalmtreestillmine
    Greenpalmtreestillmine

    AGuest,

    I agree with you. I am a follower of the teachings of Christ not Paul. Paul himself warned people not to become followers of him or anyone else. A Christian "belongs" to Christ and to follow anyone else means we "belong" to them also, in effect having two masters.

    I believe Paul wrote what was good and right for his time, just as Moses wrote what was good and necessary for the people of Israel.

    Jesus allowed women to ask him questions directly never did he command that they remain silent. The conversations Jesus had with Martha at the death of her brother and with the Samaritan woman at the well are among the most studied and wondered statements of his. Women traveled with him, aided him, loved him, stood by him. And in the end it was to a woman that Jesus gave the command to bring the greatest good news of all time, the greatest teaching of all time and the greatest blessing of all time: the good news of his resurrection to his male disciples and in turn to the world.

    No wonder they loved him!

    Paul though did not have the authority of Jesus and so could only act within the system he lived. Paul had enough problems with the Jewish conservative element of his time, to introduce women's liberation would have been impossible and a huge hinderance to his work. So first things first, he declared the good news to the nations. His letters are beautiful, instructive and even at times spirit directed but were not written in stone. Just as the Law of Moses was not written in stone, so also Paul's words were not written in stone. They both served a purpose for the time and people they were written for but not for all peoples and all times.

    Only the Ten Commandments and the recorded teachings of Jesus are timeless and good for all peoples, if they want to hear them.

    Well, that's my belief. Are we possibly somewhat on the same page?

    Sabrina

  • heathen
    heathen

    Aguest --- You keep claiming to be some sort of spiritual guide where as my intent is to discuss the contents of the bible . In those passages I have quoted the apostle paul did not use the term IMO but even when he did, he also used the phrase I think the spirit is directing me, much as you keep insisting . In any way it's not that I lack courage it's merely that I am not a christian that I don't join in these rituals . I am a heathen but still don't mind discussing the contents of scripture . It doesn't matter to me if you eat and drink judgement on yourself . You don't sound too healthy from what you have stated and that is one of the reasons as mentioned that the apostle paul gave stern warning to people about the ritual .It would be nice if you started using the term IMO as well the WTBTS . OK then we will agree to disagree and part friends .

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    (and much peace to you!)... that we should simply agree to disagree.

    I would also like to ask you to consider entertaining the TRUTH that I neither claim nor consider myself to be any "sort of spiritual guide," that I have indeed told you... and any who read what I wrote... who that "guide" is... that I am simply a messenger... that I did not post my message so as to "discuss the contents of the Bible", but rather because I was directed by my Lord to do so... that YOU responded to what I first posted... and not the other way around... and therefore, it was you who basically got off-track... and so to now claim that your purpose was to "discuss the contents of the Bible," is, truthfully, inaccurate. For the subject of the thread is not the contents of the Bible... but the flesh and blood of Christ... and that ANYONE can eat and drink of it, and any who DO... will live forever, be resurrected, and have life in themselves.

    I would also ask you the entertain the TRUTH that in attempting to set a "law" or "rule" as to WHAT should be eaten, and when and where and by whom, while at the same time stating that you do DO eat and drink... that, in fact, you are NOT a "christian," is... well, hypocritical at worst, and burdensome at best. If you, although knowing what should be done do NOT do it yourself, who then are you to prescribe what and how to anyone else? That is what the scribes and Pharisees did: placed heavy loads on the people that even they themselves were unwilling to carry.

    And finally, I would ask you to entertain the TRUTH that your assertion that it is only MEN who should eat and drink and not women... is false... and so I have NO choice... but to disagree. For the word "anyone," means just that: anyone. For as I stated at the beginning, with God there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor freeman, male nor female... for all are ONE with God, in union with Christ. And to eat the felsh and drink the blood OF the Christ... is one thing that brings one "in union" with Christ. And it was Christ... who said so... no matter WHAT you believe Paul "taught."

    John 6:56; 15:1-7

    I bid you the greatest of peace, dear Heathen.

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    on the "same page," dear GreenPalm (may you have peace!), with one exception:

    The Law (Covenant), although written on stone and which did not pass away, was, in fact, FULFILLED... and nailed to the torture stake of my Lord... so as to be REPLACED... with a NEW Law (Covenant). The former (Old) Law, mediated by Moses and handed down at Sinai, was fulfilled by our Lord, who mediated and handed down the (New) Law... of love. EVERY particle of the Old Law WAS fulfilled... by Christ... before it passed away.

    There is no difference between the two Laws... and every difference: while both laws are fulfilled by love... the first condemned to death, while the second released to life. The second is "better" than the first, although the first was perfect, in that the second was mediated by a priest to time indefinite, one whose blood is BETTER than the sprinkling of the blood of bulls, in that such offering COVERS more than the blood of bulls, for more people (more than just Israel), and for a longer period of time (indefinite).

    Should one try to live by the "Ten Commandments?" That is between such one and God, through Christ. But, should one trangress such "law"... one who belongs to Christ has a "covering" for such "sin"... a "propitiatory sacrifice" that SURPASSES the "law" for those who "trespass" it.

    When given the Law, the Israelites misunderstood it's purpose to "make sin manifest." While, true, it made the sins of one's neighbor apparent, so that if one's neighbor sinned against one, one had remedy "by law", it was truly not for that purpose. Rather, one was SUPPOSED to use the Law to see one's OWN transgressions... so as to ask FORGIVENESS... from God and neighbor... but also so that one could FORGIVE one's neighbor when such neighbor sinned against one.

    We find this truth in the life of the Christ: while he himself never transgressed the Law, he NEVER condemned anyone who transgressed against him, but freely FORGAVE such ones and released them. Even of those responsible for his death he said: "Father, FORGIVE them; for they know not what they do." If ANYONE had cause to hold a grudge, to want retribution, to want to judge and condemn, he did. And yet, he did not... and commanded us not to do so either.

    Contrastly, the Law, at times, required the holding of a grudge, retribution, judgment and condemnation. How could a true Israelite get around such things and not be judged and condemned him/herself? By following the Christ! According to the Law, for example, an adulterer/adultress was to be judged and stoned. Yet, when such a woman was brought to him, Christ did not consent to judge OR stone her. Rather, he forgave and released her. Did he transgress the Law in doing so? Some would think so, since the Law required such judging and stoning. Those who brought her to him even said so. But he did not transgress; rather... he SURPASSED. LOVE... "covers a MULTITUDE of transgressions,"... and there is NO LAW... against love. And so, he chose LOVE... versus judgment and condemnation.

    So, by his love... he SURPASSED the Law, and thus FULFILLED it.

    I personnally cannot live by the Law Covenant, dear GreenPalm, for there are more than the 10, and if I try to live by one or some of it, I come under all of it. And I will transgress one or some of it... sooner or later... and thus be condemned by one or some of it. I have chosen, instead, to live by the Law of the NEW Covenant... mediated by Christ and ratified by HIS blood... the Law of Love... which says I must judge neither my neighbor NOR my enemy, but must love BOTH... as well as God. For me, it's simply an easier "law" to live by... and I thank God, through Christ, for it!

    May the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH (Psalm 68:4) of Armies... and the peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the mediator of God's NEW Covenant with mankind... be upon you... if you so with it.

    Your servant, and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • Greenpalmtreestillmine
    Greenpalmtreestillmine

    Hi AGuest,

    I was drawing a distinction between the Law of Moses which passed away and the Ten Commandments which in general represent eternal laws which most Christian societies recognize as binding. So too with the teachings of Christ and the teachings of Paul, one is eternal the other is good, useful and even inspired but not all binding and eternal. That is my opinion.

    Thank you so much for your response.

    Sabrina

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