"my Father is greater than I" and the Trinity (page 6)

UnDisfellowshipped

Herk said:

Trinitarians accuse non-trinitarians of making fun of Jesus.

Herk, I did not accuse all "non-trinitarians" of making fun of Jesus, I only accused YOU of making fun of Jesus. Herk said:

Then when they're shown that it is the Trinitarians who are the ones who ridicule God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they ask, "What does that have to do with our discussion?"

Herk, were any of those images of the Trinity from a NON-Catholic religion? Were any from a "Born Again" or Baptist or Protestant religion or Fundamental Christian religion? Anyone who makes any image of God (Trinitarian or otherwise) is an IDOLATOR! So, my point is, what do idolatrous images made in the past by idolatrous false "Christians" have to do with whether or not the Bible teaches the Trinity? I personally do not care how idolators view the Trinity. I care what the Bible says. Would you like it, or would it prove anything, if I were to make fun of your beliefs on the basis of what the Watchtower Society believes and teaches, instead of on the basis of what the Bible says?

herk

UnDisfellowshipped,

So, my point is, what do idolatrous images made in the past by idolatrous false "Christians" have to do with whether or not the Bible teaches the Trinity? I personally do not care how idolators view the Trinity. I care what the Bible says.

All Trinitarians are idolaters. For thousands of years before Christ, God's people never worshipped a triune god, and today they still do not worship such a pagan deity. If you were truly honest with yourself, you would admit that you really do not "care what the Bible says." The Bible does not teach the Trinity doctrine--anywhere. You find it there because you want to find it there. You search the Scriptures for support of what you already believe, not for what the people of the Bible believed.

Would you like it, or would it prove anything, if I were to make fun of your beliefs on the basis of what the Watchtower Society believes and teaches, instead of on the basis of what the Bible says?

In view of our past discussions, you should know that I'm not a JW and that I do not believe their doctrines about God and the origin of Jesus. herk

herk

UnDisfellowshipped

Herk said:

If Jesus was God in the same way the Father is God, . . .

He would not have said "believe in God, believe also in me." (Verse 1)
Why not? When Jesus was on earth, when Jesus said "God", He was referring to The Father. So, Jesus was saying: "believe in God [The Father], believe also in Me [The Son]."
He would not have said "In my Father's house" but in "our" house. (Verse 2)

Says who? You? "The Father is greater than I" said Jesus while on earth.

He would not have said ""I am the way" but "I am the ultimate goal." (Verse 6)

Jesus is The Way to The Father. Jesus is The Way to Heaven. Jesus is The Way to Eternal Life. Jesus is The Way to Salvation.

He would not have said "I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper." If he shared equality with God following his ascension, there would be no need to request anything from another member of the so-called "triune God." If any member of the Trinity was to be asked, and if the Holy Spirit was the "Third Person of the Trinity," and if all members shared equality, the Spirit should have been the one asked, not the Father. (Verse 16)
The Father is The Head of Christ. The Father is greater than Christ. The Father is the God of Christ. Christ is in subjection to The Father, even in Heaven.

He would not have said "I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you." (Verse 20) He would not have so carelessly suggested that membership in the Trinity would be shared by his followers.
Say what?
He would not have spoken of "the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name." (Verse 26) If the Holy Spirit was an equal member of the Trinity, he would have betrayed a lack of equality since Jesus taught that "the one being sent is lesser than the one who sends him." And why would the spirit come in the name of Jesus if his own name was equal to that of Jesus' name?

John chapters 14, 15, and 16 say at different places that Jesus asks The Father to send The Spirit; and that The Father sends The Spirit in the Name of Jesus; and that Jesus Himself sends The Spirit.

God The Father has given Jesus THE NAME ABOVE EVERY NAME, "JESUS".

Also, notice:

Matthew 28:19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Herk, doesn't that say that The Father, The Son, and The Spirit have ONE NAME?

UnDisfellowshipped

Herk said:

In view of our past discussions, you should know that I'm not a JW and that I do not believe their doctrines about God and the origin of Jesus.

That was my point exactly.

I am not a Catholic image-worshiper, therefore, why are you using Catholic Trinity images to try to show what I believe?

UnDisfellowshipped

Herk said:

In view of our past discussions, you should know that I'm not a JW and that I do not believe their doctrines about God and the origin of Jesus.

That was my point exactly.

I am not a Catholic image-worshiper. Therefore, why are you using Catholic Trinity images to try to show what I believe?

herk

UnDisfellowshipped,

I am not a Catholic image-worshiper, therefore, why are you using Catholic Trinity images to try to show what I believe?

You admit that Catholics are image worshippers. But even though you worship the same false god(s), you deny that you also are an image worshipper! Think about that!

On the other hand, I don't believe as JWs do. So your attempt at linking me with them is without effect.

Why not? When Jesus was on earth, when Jesus said "God", He was referring to The Father. So, Jesus was saying: "believe in God [The Father], believe also in Me [The Son]."

It is mere wishful thinking on your part that "God" in the Bible means only the Father at times and that "God" means a trinity at other times. You have nothing--absolutely nothing--in Scripture to support such a preposterous idea.

herk

UnDisfellowshipped

Herk said:

You admit that Catholics are image worshippers. But even though you worship the same false god(s), you deny that you also are an image worshipper! Think about that!
On the other hand, I don't believe as JWs do. So your attempt at linking me with them is without effect.

But Herk: you worship the same God (The Father only) that the Watchtower Society teaches, yet you deny that you believe as the JWs do. Think about that!

Herk said:

It is mere wishful thinking on your part that "God" in the Bible means only the Father at times and that "God" means a trinity at other times. You have nothing--absolutely nothing--in Scripture to support such a preposterous idea.

And yet, at John 1:1, you claim that the first time "God" is mentioned refers to The Almighty, but the 2nd time "God" is mentioned refers to an inferior, lesser, created being separate from The Almighty.

"my Father is greater than I" and the Trinity

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