Scholar never ceases to amaze me. He has had his tail kicked so many times on this subject.
PLEASE HELP! Assist in 1914 Rebuttal...
by Jared 63 Replies latest watchtower bible
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scholar
City Fan
No one has kicked my butt because nothing that has been posted on this subject is factual but simply a repetition of the Jonsson hypothesis which is only a rehash of SDA chronology. The very fact that critics of 607 cannot determine the calender year for the fall of Jerusalem and cannot agree as to chronology and nature of the seventy years renders such views as foolish. The biblical chronology espoused by the Lord's people is simple and harmonizes with secular evidence and biblical history. Also, it succeeds in determining 1914 when prophecies were fulfilled with the Kingdom. The other secular or profane dates are useless for Christians as such dates do not produce faith.
Not a single posting on this subject is new but simply repeats the false claims of apostates who have gullibly followed the research and opinion of one man who has not had his GTR subjected to any peer review in the scholarly literature. The Jonsson hypothesis is based on the broad meaning of a single Hebrew preposition represented in a single text namely Jeremiah 29:10. If people want to base their beliefs on that single fact then they are to be pitied, I for one, would rather base my belief on cumulative texts and the direct secular evidence.
scholar
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ozziepost
What happened to the degree?
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ozziepost
G'day Farkel,
Mrs Ozzie and I greatly enjoyed your fine exposition of 1914 for Dummies. A masterpiece, mate!
Best laugh of the month!
Cheers, Ozzie
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drawcad_1
oh, goodie.
JCanon and scholar are here to help us understand 607BC. First remove half of your brain.
ozziepost: good point about the degree, it has disapeared.
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ellderwho
The biblical chronology espoused by the Lord's people is simple and harmonizes with secular evidence and biblical history.
You accuse people of hanging beliefs on one fact but you yourself are guilty of the same.
If people want to base their beliefs on that single fact then they are to be pitied,
E
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AGuest
and dearest Jared, if you are still reading this thread)... may you both have peace! I would like to respond to Scholar's assertion:
Not a single posting on this subject is new but simply repeats the false claims of apostates who have gullibly followed the research and opinion of one man who has not had his GTR subjected to any peer review in the scholarly literature.
with something "new", if I may. I will use "the Bible" to do, for those who need it. Thank you!
The WTBTS asserts that 1914 is a pivotal and milestone year because it is the year that my Lord "began ruling." They assert that from Pentecost 33 CE (which date is also incorrect), he "sat at the right hand of the Father," doing pretty much nothing, until he received his kingdom... in 1914. May I direct you to "the Bible"? I will use the NWT Reference Bible, for dear Scholar's sake, thank you:
Psalm 110:1 states: "The utterance of JAH (sorry, I can't do the "Jehovah" thing!) to my Lord is: 'Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet."
So, it appears that he sat down... and perhaps even waited... for such putting of placing of enemies, yes? But does "the Bible" say he sat down and did nothing but wait? Well, let's look at 1 Corinthians 15:25:
"For he must RULE... AS KING... UNTIL [God] has put all enemies under his feet."
Hmmmm... rule? You mean... DOING something? Not just sitting there... waiting? Certainly! But doing... what!? Well, let's go back to Psalm 110... this time, verse 2:
"The rod of YOUR (Christ's, yes?) strength, JAH will send out of Zion, saying: GO... SUBDUING... in the MIDST of your enemies."
Oh! Look there! He was to GO... and DO something! SUBDUE! AND... in the MIDST of his enemies. Which means that such "subduing" occurred WHILE such enemies still existed, they having NOT YET been put under his feet!
Well! Now, if he (my Lord) was to "go subduing" in the MIDST of his enemies... was it his enemies that he was "subduing"? What does it mean to "subdue"? Does it not mean to bring into subjection... to tame... to train and discipline so AS to bring into subjection? Was it his "enemies" then that he was to go "subduing"? No. It was Israel... God's sheep... and the nations who would go with them... those who... by MEANS of such "subduing"... were to come into UNION with God, through Christ... RECONCILED... and thus, subdued.
But wait, there's more! My Lord was to sit at the Father's right hand (and according to the WTBTS' interpretation, do nothing whilst sitting)... until his ALL enemies were placed under his feet. BUT... let's return to 1 Corinthians 15, this time, verse 26:
"As the LAST enemy, DEATH... is to be brought... to nothing."
So what? So, if the WTBTS' interpretation is CORRECT... then my Lord... is STILL sitting at the right hand of the Father... doing NOTHING... for he STILL has an enemy that has not been brought to nothing... NOT been put under his feet. Death. Death... STILL reigns... and WILL reign... until he is brought to nothing. But THAT... does not occur until after the 1,000 years!
Revelation 20:7, 14
Sooooo... if my Lord's "sitting" at the Father's right hand also constitutes him doing NOTHING... then he is STILL sitting, doing nothing... because the last enemy, death, has NOT yet been brought to nothing. ALL of his enemies have NOT yet been placed under his feet. And, as a result, based on such teaching he, therefore, could NOT have began to rule... in 1914... because such teaching states that he does not start ruling until ALL of his enemies have been placed under his feet!
BUT... praise JAH... he is NOT sitting, doing nothing... and never was! From the MOMENT he sat down... he began to RULE ("for he must RULE AS KING..."). Indeed, we have EVIDENCE, for the OUTPOURING OF HOLY SPIRIT... AT PENTECOST 30 CE... WAS... the "evidence" of his INAUGURATION and installation... as king... AND High Priest! Does "the Bible" tell us this? Indeed, it does! Hebrews Chapters 5 through 9 is about that VERY thing, which, if you do not have the faith to hear the Fine Shepherd himself tell you, you should read... rather than simply (and lazily) rely on what others TELL you:
"So, too, the Christ did not glorify HIMSELF by becoming a high priest but was glorified by HIM who spoke with reference to him: 'You are my son; I, TODAY, I have become your father.' Just as He says also in another place: 'You ARE a priest (not, "you WILL BE a priest")... FOREVER... according to the manner of Melchizedek."
Hebrews 5:5, 6
And Hebrews 7:1:
"For this Melchizedek, KING of Salem, priest of the Most High God... is FIRST OF ALLL... by translation... "KING of Righteousness," and then is also KING of Salem... that is... KING... of peace."
Now, I want to quote for you verse 9:
"... and after he HAD been made perfect...
(and please note, the word ?perfect? here is the WTBTS? choice, for the TRUE rendering is ?consecrated?? )
?he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him."
Those who "obey" him... are those whom he "subdued," dear Scholar. And if such responsibility for everlasting salvation did not take place until he ?began? to rule in 1914, then ALL those who came before that time? are lost.
But it did not, for such salvation is granted by means of his SACRIFICE, which he offered up as HIGH PRIEST... AND KING. So that... from the very moment that he entered and offered his sacrifice to God... FOR US... and was immediately installed... he POURED OUT HIS SPIRIT UPON HIS DISCIPLES... and began... "subduing" them... while his... and their... enemies... still existed. In the MIDST of his enemies.
My Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH... of Armies... began ruling from the VERY moment that he sat down at the Father's right hand. Just a Joseph "ruled" while at the right hand of Pharaoh, and Belshazzar ruled at the right hand of Nebuchanezzar.
For at that time... ALL things were made subject to him, EXCEPT the One who subjected all things TO him... God Himself... and by MEANS of him, Christ, God is to put ALL of His enemies, His and Christ's... and thus, ours... under the feet of Christ. For it is as my Lord said, "Look! ALL authority has been given me... in heaven AND on earth!"
And so Christ began ruling... will continue to rule... in the MIDST of this... the existence of his enemies... until the LAST enemy... Death... is brought to nothing.
May you hear... and get the SENSE of it.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
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peacefulpete
The author ofn Daniel 9:25 undestood that lenngth of exile for the elite of Judah to be 49 years long, this agrees with modern scholarship and Jewish belief. In my opinion the easiest way to refute the Adventist calculations (modified by Russel and Rutherford) for the end times is to realize the use of hypothetical "prophetic" 360 day years in the first calculation but then to use our 365 day calander for the lst part. Even then the leap years need to be ignored. By being consistant in using a 360 day year the silly "calculations" arrive at 1878.
Earlier I posted this:
Much time has been expended trying to make sense of the 70 years of desolation claimed in parts of the Bible with no success. I have in the past presented what i feel was evidence that the so called desolation was in fact 49 years in duration and was know as such by one of the authors of Daniel. This is the conclusion drawn by most Bible commentaries and reference works. Also the matter of what actually happened versus the Bible's description of "empty land" has been posted here before. It has also been suggested by a number of authors that the significance of certain numbers (eg.3,7,10,12) to ancient superstitious peoples is reason enuf to interpret the 70 (7x10)as literary rather than literal. I ran across an interesting piece of parallelism in Babylonian texts.
"Seventy years, the reckoning of it's destruction which He had inscribed, the merciful God Marduke, as soon as his heart had calmed down, reversed the order (of the sign) and ordered it's resettlement after eleven years." Babylonian Inscription of Esarhaddon
The cuneiform text seeks to rationalize Babylon's destruction by Sennacherib as an act of punishment by Marduke but yet explains the early restoration of the city as an act of compassion on Marduke's part. The 70 year motif is nontheless interesting.
Oct 2, 2003 -
Leolaia
I've asked this before and I'll ask it again....If Jesus returned and was enthroned as king in 1914, why are we still waiting for his millenial rule to begin? Usually a king starts to rule when he is enthroned, no?
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Ailla
I've asked this before and I'll ask it again....If Jesus returned and was enthroned as king in 1914, why are we still waiting for his millenial rule to begin? Usually a king starts to rule when he is enthroned, no?
You didn't know his rule is invisible and he is ruling right now?