Here I go again...

by Joysome 22 Replies latest jw experiences

  • bebu
    bebu

    Joysome,

    May I ask you to show ME what "hard facts" are trusting in that prove beyond doubt that the WT is God's channel? I have never been a dub, but this is something that I think about often.

    I am sincere! WHERE is the HARD PROOF that the Governing Body of the WT should be listened to above every other person in the world?? "Clear evidence" is often used as a phrase in WT writings, but NO CLEAR EVIDENCE is ever given! That is a glaring lack, to me! And using the sins of Christendom as the "clear evidence" is abysmally weak, for in just over 100 years the WT has succeeded in not only matching each of the sins of Christendom--but committing them to a worse degree!

    Let me give you some "hard proof", which you may never have seen before. From this website, as it gives the references for these transcripts. http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ100.HTM.*

    3. Insight Into the JW Perspective on "Unity"

    One of the JWs who testified at the 1954 Scotland Trial (see section I, 12) was Haydon C. Covington, former vice-president of the Watchtower Society and its legal counsel. Here are some highlights of his testimony:

    A. Jehovah God is the Creator, the Former and Founder of the organization . . . he is its directive Head . . . it is governed by Jehovah God, the Most High.
    Q. It is for that reason that Jehovah's Witnesses accept without questions doctrines and biblical interpretations as expounded by the Watch Tower . . . through its Directors?
    A. Yes.
    Q. In publications both periodical and in book form?
    A. Yes

    (pp. 24-25 of Pursuer's Proof)

    Q. A Witness has no alternative, has he, to accept as authoritative and to be obeyed the instructions issued in The Watchtower or . . . Awake?
    A. He must obey those.

    (p. 123)

    Q. You have promulgated -- forgive the word -- false prophecy?
    A. We have . . . That was the publication of a false prophecy, it was a false statement . . .
    Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of the Jehovah's Witnesses?
    A. Yes, because you must understand we must have unity; we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way; an army is supposed to march in step . . .
    Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was wrong and said so would he be disfellowshiped?
    A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organization believes one thing, even though it be erroneous, and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble; there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching together . . . the organization would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.
    Q. Unity at all costs?
    A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah is using our organization . . . even though mistakes are made from time to time.
    Q. And unity based upon a forced acceptance of a false prophecy?
    A. That is conceded to be true.
    Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshiped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?
    A. That is correct.
    Q. And . . . would be worthy of death? . . .
    A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.
    Q. Do you call that religion?
    A. It certainly is.
    Q. Do you call it Christianity?
    A. I certainly do.

    (pp. 340-343)

    Covington was later disfellowshiped himself, perhaps partly because of this testimony. Frederick Franz, the 4th President of the Watchtower Society, also had his say on the stand:

    Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years?
    A. We have to wait and see.
    Q. And in the meantime the body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been following error?
    A. No. They have been following misconstructions of the Scriptures.
    Q. Error?
    A. Well, error.

    Asked about the date of Adam's creation, which had been "altered three times," Franz replied:

    A. The date has been corrected.
    Q. But once the date was published by the Society all Jehovah's Witnesses were bound to accept it as Scripturally true?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And liable to be disfellowshiped if they demurred to that date?
    A. If they caused trouble iver it, because the Scriptures say that if anyone is a disturber inside the congregation he is hindering the growth of the congregation . . . and should be disfellowshiped.
    Q. Even though he perchance were supporting that date now taken by the Society when the Society was publishing a wrong date?
    A. . . . he will abide by what is published for the time being . . . he gets blessing because of his submission and waiting upon Jehovah and not leaving it to his own understanding.

    *You can buy a complete photocopy of the court trancript (1186 pp) for 600 British pounds. The Pursuers Proof alone (815 pp) is 415 pounds. You can order microfilm of the complete copy for 40 pounds. (I don't know what this is in $; I only know these prices are good until May 8, 2004, which is 2 months from the date of the letter I received when I enquired about purchasing.) Order this by contacting [email protected]; they write that they take credit/debit cards.

    Here is the hard evidence that the WT EXPECTS you to put your trust in THEM ABOVE THE WORD OF GOD. THE SAME WORD OF GOD THAT WARNED YOU THAT IN THE LAST DAYS DECEIVERS WOULD COME IN JESUS' NAME... THE SAME WORD OF GOD THAT SAID THAT ONE OCCURENCE OF FALSE PROPHECY WAS ENOUGH WITNESS TO CONVICT A PROPHET. (Remember, for all other testimony TWO witnesses were required!! False prophecy was an extremely severe offense!) So you can see that you may be giving lip service to Jehovah God in the Bible... but when you are pressed to choose between the Bible and the WT, if you are a JW, you MUST choose the WT.

    THAT ALONE is ENOUGH proof for me; and it should help all the other pieces you've been looking at to fall into place.

    bebu

  • amac
    amac

    Joysome -

    You asked for some hard facts and have been given a slew of topics to choose from to discuss. Now you are nowhere to be found. Does this mean that you are not REALLY interested in whether or not it is "the truth?"

  • family_man
    family_man

    I agree with Bebu.

    Instead of putting the burden on those who have researched the facts of why the WTS is not the one true religion why not put the burden on the WTS to prove they are "God's Channel".

    All I've heard from their side is "fact" based on their own literature, which upon further investigation amounts to nothing more than misquoted references - inlulding their bible which has aready been addressed as mistranslated in parts by someone who was unqualified. So far nothing valid has come from the WTS in this respect.

    FM

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