Position on College Changed?

by Maximus 93 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jschwehm

  Let me tell you my experience in going to Bethel.

  At the Bethel meetings at the district conventions we were told not to get trained in anything that it would not increase our chances of getting accepted to Bethel. There were numerous opportunities where I had considered going to a trade school while pioneering only to be talked out of it by my parents and elders.

  When I got to Bethel, I was assigned to the Paint and Scaffold Crew. There was a young guy who was assigned to this same crew with me. He was mortified to say the least. It turned out that he had some connections and actually got accepted to Bethel before turning 19. He was 18 years old.

  He wanted to be an artist and I suppose he was pretty good at it. He wanted out of the Paint and Scaffold Crew so badly that he would leave the Paint and Scaffold Crew department and then go and volunteer to work in the art department after hours. He kept trying to get on the good side of the art dept overseer about getting transferred. This severely ticked off the powers at Bethel and the basically told him to stop doing it or he would never get transferred out of the Paint and Scaffold crew. I wonder if he is still there.

  In another interesting story, there was this one guy who came to Bethel with me who got some good advice from his parents who evidently knew how Bethel worked. He went to school and got a degree of some sort in drafting. He did temporary work at Bethel every few months until the overseers in the drafting department asked him to apply for Bethel service.

  When our assignments were announced he already knew that he was going to be assigned to the drafting department. The interesting thing was that I got a chance to talk to him after his first month in the drafting department and he was not very happy. It seems that they were making him to grunt work and that he got more interesting projects and assignments working as a temporary worker. Of course, my first couple of weeks was spent scraping paint off the floor of the paint mixing area on the Paint and Scaffold crew floor of the 360 Furman Building. That was fun. :) By the way, I was later informed that assignment was about humility. It had to be because when the guys would come into the mixing area to clean their brushes every evening it was like we had done nothing at all to clean the floor.

  Jeff S.
• 

  LDH

  And the biggest trip of all (which you guys all seemed to miss!?!?!?!?

  COLLEGE is about finding out who you are and what you want to do with your life. No freakin 16 or 17 year old is ready to make a decision about 'pursuing kingdom interests' without some VEEEERY heavy handed persuasion.

  So let's see. Kid graduates. Kid sits down with parents, dyed in the wool JDubs, who 'help him to appreciate' what he should be doing.

  Sounds a lot like the Communist party, if you ask me.

  I had just turned 16 and was very excited, I even accepted some scholarships. But when I asked my parents to support me (Two Ivy League schools within 30 minutes--I could have easily lived at home; but because of my parents income bracket I wouldn't have qualified for any other financial aid other than scholarships I earned. I would have needed their financial assistance.)

  I was told to leave the house immediately if I mentioned going to college again; if I wanted to be an adult and make my own decisions I could start by taking care of myself. That scared the shit out of me.

  So I turned in my application to regular pioneer together with my older sister. We cleaned the Miller bottling company nightly (the cleaning company that held the contract belonged to an elder who used to work there). And we also cleaned houses during the week. And my parents were proud to have two regular pioneers living at home.

  I really wonder how many times this has been played out in the US, alone.
• 

  Maximus

  LDH, right on! Unfortunately tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of times. I personally have met hundreds of persons who are now older and whose biggest regret in life is that an opportunity passed them by.

  Sure, you can cite a sentence from the Watchtower that says "there are no hard and fast rules," but wake up and smell the coffee. The demonstration for July 2 says it all, and you've put your finger on it.

  It's about control. And hypocrisy. No hard and fast rules? Of course. What will be take-home message from this SM part be? Yes, some will struggle to moderate its tone, but ...

  ::Sounds a lot like the Communist party, if you ask me.

  Funny, isn't it? Even to the use of the term "readjust one's thinking."

  Maximus
• 

  JT

  Max

  JWD, here in the U.S. individuals have been sent to law school while members of the Bethel family. Recently met one man who had been in Purchasing, went to school and now runs a division in Legal that handles wills and estate planning and donations, the exact name of the department escapes me now. Used to be handled by Treasurer's office.

  ######It is the Planned Giving Desk
• 

  JT

  mojojojo says

  I agree that pioneering, Bethel, etc. are still encouraged above attending college but I do feel that things are not as strict as they were. Maybe different congregations have a different attitude on the subject

  #######

  you are missing a very important point- we are not talking about the a local congregations attitude

  we are talking about the attitude that the org is trying to FOSTER ON ALL CONGO now will every single congo clamp down of course not

  but as an org what directions/tone or as my DO used to say JC Howard

  "which way is the SLAVE LEANING ON THE ISSUE

  JAMES
• 

  MoeJoJoJo

  Everyone, I do get the point-no organization has the right to tell an individual whether or not they should or shouldn't acquire higher education. It is none of their business.
  All I was saying is this---If I attended college back when I graduated, which was about fourteen years ago my father would have been removed as an elder. Now there are brothers holding positions in the congregation who are attending college themselves. And I am sure the CO is well aware. So give a newbie a break here, I was just making an observation.

  By the way, that WT article I cited was written by the Society not my local congregation.

  I AGREE, THE SOCIETY DOES FLIP FLOP ON THIS ISSUE AS WITH MANY OTHERS AND THAT ITS ALL ABOUT CONTROL.

  ALL THAT I WAS SAYING IS THAT THEY NO LONGER TAKE ACTION AGAINST YOU IF YOU ATTEND COLLEGE AND THEN I WENT ON TO RAMBLE OFF SOME POSSIBLE REASONS WHY. I WAS TRYING TO SAY THAT THEY LET UP A LITTLE NOT ENTIRELY.

  If you don't agree with me that's fine but I do get the point. And I am angry about this issue just like the rest of you.

  "plant your own garden and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers." -Veronica A. Shoffstall
• 

  Black Man

  This was one of the biggest issues that sincerely ticked the hell outta me. The article on higher education that came out (early 90's i think) was a couple of years after I graduated from high school. I did what was encouraged in my circuit and that was to turn down scholarship offers and pioneer. But then when I get to Bethel, peeps that hadn't pioneered for a day in their life (and had gone to college) had office jobs and I'm stuck cleanin' their crap outta the toilets.

  I don't know if this was the case with anybody else, but the "white" circuits in my area were a little more open-minded and didn't put as much pressure on kids to not go to college, while me being a black kid in a black circuit would've been crucified at the mere thought. College was equated with being spiritually weak. My circuit definitely took what the the FDS said in the Watchtower literally while outlying circuits in the area (Michigan) didn't take those words quite as literally. Interesting dynamics there.

  I'm just now making up ground. What kills me is the arrogance of the WTS. I would have felt a little better if they would have just admitted and apologized for their stance on college. But no, they resort to saying "we never implicitly forbade persons from going to college." BULLSHIT. I can't begin to imagine how all the hopes, dreams, aspirations and just personal self-worth of people were completely shot to hell because they blindly followed the Society's edict on college.

  What's funny is that nowadays, if you're a doctor, nurse, lawyer, engineer and etc., you can most likely be accepted to Bethel as soon as you get out of the baptismal pool. While on the other hand you have peeps at Bethel or peeps that have served at Bethel that don't have any training outside of BUFFING TOILETS. Sad.........
• 

  Bendrr

  I remember electing not to go to higher education.
  Job after job of menial low-paying work. Wasn't till after leaving The Empire I finally found a career and since I had no college it's taken me a long time to reach a position in the auto repair industry that pays worth a damn.
  All you young witnesses who may read this, please consider some kind of schooling whether University or Trade School. You can't live on minimum wage. You can exist on say 30,000/year and I mean simply EXIST. You can forget raising a family on it!
  Jehovah is NOT going to send you a check in the mail, as I had to remind my stepdad once.
• 

  jukief

  I hear you, Black Man. I think your desciption of what you went through as a black teenager is similar to the treatment women/girls got. I graduated in 1972, and I knew damned well I had only two options--pioneer or get married. It was unthinkable that I would either go to college or get a little place of my own and work full time. My father was an elder, and I didn't even question it. I hated service and didn't want to pioneer, so I ended up getting married at 17 to the first guy I dated (big mistake).

  The funny thing is, a couple of years after I got married my best friend's father gave a talk at the circuit assembly where he said if you had the circumstances to pioneer and you weren't pioneering, you couldn't expect to survive Armageddon. So guess what? I ended up pioneering after all. :-( What a nightmare that was. Luckily I got pregnant and used morning sickness as an excuse to quit. :-)

  I got divorced in 1985, moved to another city with my two young sons, and got my bachelor's degree. It's never too late.

  JukieF
• 

  Maximus

  ::ALL THAT I WAS SAYING IS THAT THEY NO LONGER TAKE ACTION AGAINST YOU IF YOU ATTEND COLLEGE

  I understand where you're coming from. We're cool.

  True. "They" don't take action such as DF or considering you have DAd yourself. You won't be shunned. But you most likely will be treated differently and viewed differently, and parents may very well pay a price.

  What I'm trying to point out is the hypocrisy that says there is no rule, college is an honorable choice, and you are truly free to make that choice, while at the same time all the code language in the publications, convention talks, and the service meetings says the opposite.

  What CO or DO dares get quoted as telling someone it's okay to get some advanced education? The article was written in response to pressure that said, 'Times have changed, high school is no longer adequate.' They were forced to make the '92 statement, but that hasn't changed the mind of the GB.

  It's very much like the pedophile issue. No one is in favor of sexual abuse of children. But the code language and overt direction from the top favors and virtually insists on protection of the pervert and rarely looks at the abused. Generally it's, "We want to protect Jehovah's good name." To go against that is extremely difficult, which is what silentlambs is telling us. The message is, Protect the organization at all costs.

  Go to college, you are materialistic, selfish, not interested in 'setting theocratic goals to advance Kingdom interests.' That's the message in this service meeting demonstration, and it may be enforced in any way local elders want to, with nary a word from on high to the contrary.

  That's what's reflected in these posts, representing literally hundreds of real-life experiences that I personal have had, to my great sorrow. Did I privately tell kids to go to college? You bet. Some are still thanking me for taking that risk.

  Maximus