NIV vs NWT

azaria

I’m here for just a few minutes to post this. I will try to come back later this evening.

NIV Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and wordly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in the present age, while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

NWT

Titus 2:11-14 For the undeserved kindness of God which brings salvation to all sorts of men has been manifested, instructing us to repudiate ungodliness and worldly desires and to live with soundness of mind and righteousness and godly devotion amid this present system of things, while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of (the) Saviour of us, Christ Jesus, who gave himself for us that he might deliver us from every sort of lawlesssness and cleanse for himself a people peculariarly his own, zealous for fine works.

I read this verse last night. Sometimes I will read the NWT version and I am always struck by the mumble jumble of the wording plus the added words to make the meaning totally different. There is so much that I can say. Why undeserved kindness instead of grace?

Glorious manifestation of the great God and of (the) Saviour of us, Christ Jesus. I get the impression from this line that God will manifest himself also? A whole sentence longer but is it any more clear. Could that be the point, because many don’t question what they read, they just accept it. But then aren’t witness told, that because they aren’t filled with the holy spirit they couldn’t possibly understand what they have just read, that only the annointed understand?

LittleToe

Grace is a beautiful word (and lady ), IMHO.

Personally I love "The Message" although it, too, uses a different phrase:

God's readiness to give and forgive is now public. Salvation's available for everyone! We're being shown how to turn our backs on a godless, indulgent life, and how to take on a God-filled, God-honoring life. This new life is starting right now, and is whetting our appetites for the glorious day when our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, appears. He offered himself as a sacrifice to free us from a dark, rebellious life into this good, pure life, making us a people he can be proud of, energetic in goodness.

lollydawdle

Amen Azaria and Little Toe! I started to read the Bible alone (NIV) from Matthew and am at Revelation. I could never get the meanings in the NWT. Now I find myself reading both just to try to catch the errors in the NWT with the help of the Greek words in the Greek Interlinear (although I know that's published by the WTBTS). But they don't count on people actually reading the NWT, let alone studying it to find the errors!

Grace is indeed a BEAUTIFUL word! It says volumes more than "undeserved kindness". Surely, everyone DESERVES kindness. But GRACE is a gift from God. Amen?

ozziepost

Could that be the point, because many don?t question what they read, they just accept it. But then aren?t witness told, that because they aren?t filled with the holy spirit they couldn?t possibly understand what they have just read, that only the annointed understand?

No!

Who are "the anointed" anyway? Can you explain that? I'm sure the R&F dubs would find it very difficult to actually explain.

For the record, the Bible does not teach two classes for salvation.

There is only one hope spoken of in the Bible. Just one.

Cheers, Ozzie

gumby

NIV Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men

Well, I hit a snag right off the bat with this scripture. Jesus has "appeared" to ALL men? Really?

Has he "appeared" to all the Muslims, and Buddhists, and all others on the planet? Many know nothing of Jesus. How has he appeared to ALL men?

It's hard to follow an argument when the argument has snags from the start. I still love ya though Ozmeister......just can't agree about many things.

The ("and of our savior") in the scripture you mentioned, is quite controversial with scholars other than dubs.

Gumheathen

galaxy7

NIV Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and wordly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in the present age, while we wait for the blessed hope?the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

I love that scripture

Its to bad they cant see that they dont have to work so hard for salvation

ozziepost

G'day Gumby,

I'm not sure I follow you, but in regards to this:

Jesus has "appeared" to ALL men? Really?

Look above at that text again and you'll see that it doesn't say that Jesus appeared to all men, it was grace! Quite different.

Cheers, ozzie

gumby

Look above at that text again and you'll see that it doesn't say that Jesus appeared to all men, it was grace!

Ok then......how has Jesus shown grace to all who know nothing of him? How can someone experience grace they know nothing of? Unless these ones put their faith in him, are washed in his blood and born again....they CANNOT see the kingdom of god according to the bibles words. How will they hear unless somone preaches to them? Will all mankind ever get that chance?

Gumby

UnDisfellowshipped

Gumby,

You're always asking these tough questions, what's up? lol

It's actually great that someone is asking these very hard to answer questions -- be like the Noble Beroeans!

You said:

NIV Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men
Well, I hit a snag right off the bat with this scripture. Jesus has "appeared" to ALL men? Really?
Has he "appeared" to all the Muslims, and Buddhists, and all others on the planet? Many know nothing of Jesus. How has he appeared to ALL men?
It's hard to follow an argument when the argument has snags from the start. I still love ya though Ozmeister......just can't agree about many things.

The Scripture says that God's grace that brings salvation has appeared to all men (that is, all men living at the time that the Scripture was written).

Colossians 1:23: if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Romans 10:18: But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world."

Colossians 1:6: which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

2nd Timothy 4:17: But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me, so that the message might be preached fully through me, and that all the Gentiles might hear. And I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

God can use angels to preach the Gospel to people if He so desires:

Revelation 14: 6-7: Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth--to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people--saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."

God can cause the stones to cry out if so desires:

Luke 19:40: But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out."

God can reveal the Gospel to people directly if He so desires: Acts 9:3-6: As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?" And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads." So he, trembling and astonished, said, "Lord, what do You want me to do?" Then the Lord said to him, "Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." Bottom line: God can reveal the Gospel to anyone at any time, with or without humans doing the preaching.

gumby

1.The Scripture says that God's grace that brings salvation has appeared to all men (that is, all men living at the time that the Scripture was written).
2.God can use angels to preach the Gospel to people if He so desires:
3.God can cause the stones to cry out if so desires:
4.Bottom line: God can reveal the Gospel to anyone at any time, with or without humans doing the preaching.

1. Wrong! ALL men living at the time of Jeus were more in the dark of him than they are now accept for those in that area. Do you honestly believe ALL men had "heard of christ" during his time on earth?

2. Name ONE time god has used an angel in modern times to preach to someone. Just one.

3.Name one time a stone has preached to someone in modern times.....or any other time.

4.Name one time god has done this in modern times. Just one.

Your answers are ficticious with no proof of any kind. Sorry.

Gumby

NIV vs NWT

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