NIV vs NWT (page 3)

LittleToe

~puts hand up and comments before the mic can be offered~
"That FMZ is a wee b*st*rd meppan, who edits posts after the fact!!!"

Another vote for Esword, here. I've used it for nearly three years, and assisted in some of the Beta work.

El blanko

Personally I use the NIV for a straight read & NWT for comparison (occasionally).

I too find the NWT a little awkward in translation and grasp the meaning of scripture far better using the NIV.

UnDisfellowshipped

Gumby said:

1. Wrong! ALL men living at the time of Jeus were more in the dark of him than they are now accept for those in that area. Do you honestly believe ALL men had "heard of christ" during his time on earth?

I believe whatever the Scriptures say. The Scriptures say that during the time of the Apostle Paul's preaching, "EVERY CREATURE [ALL HUMANS] UNDER HEAVEN" heard the Gospel.

Do you have any proof whatsoever that that statement is false? Or is that simply your own opinion?

Gumby said:

2. Name ONE time god has used an angel in modern times to preach to someone. Just one.

How would I know personally? I simply stated that the Bible says that God CAN do that IF He so chooses.

Gumby said:

3.Name one time a stone has preached to someone in modern times.....or any other time.

Once again, how would I know personally? I simply stated that the Bible says that God CAN do that IF He so chooses.

Gumby said:

4.Name one time god has done this in modern times. Just one.

Well, Gumby, for many Born Again Christians, Jesus has indeed revealed Himself to them, and they experience Him so real that they are willing to give up everything for Him -- EVERY THING -- that includes myself.

Gumby said:

Your answers are ficticious with no proof of any kind. Sorry.

How can you know whether or not God has revealed Himself to me or other Christians? How can you claim that is "ficticious"?

UnDisfellowshipped

Gumby,

You had asked whether or not the Gospel has been preached to all people in Muslim countries, etc, etc.

My answer is -- I do not know what God has or has not chosen to do.

My guess is that no, the Gospel has not been preached or revealed to all those people.

God is Sovereign over all.

Jesus will judge all the people who have ever lived -- including the ones who have never heard the Gospel. I trust completely in Jesus Christ's judgment.

Jesus gave the "Great Commission" that all His disciples should preach the Gospel to everyone everywhere. What would have been the point if He was just going to save everyone who never heard the Gospel anyway?

2nd Thessalonians 1: 7-9: and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

That Scripture is pretty clear -- those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel are going to Hell.

I really can't say much else -- what else is there to say?

El blanko

UnDisfellowshipped:

Gumby appears to be character who bases his understanding of this life strictly in the objective/material world and does not believe in the invisible possibilities unless they can be measured and rationalized before his eyes.

Preaching the good news to him is pointless, as he has made his mind over.

You have to respect that I suppose and move on.

Gumby:

Have you ever considered looking into the world of the occult sciences? If you want well documented evidence of intelligent spirit creatures, try looking there. Eliphas Levi is an interesting character to start you quest for knowledge. Also, Dr John Dee.

Abaddon

UnDis:

Well, Gumby, for many Born Again Christians, Jesus has indeed revealed Himself to them, and they experience Him so real that they are willing to give up everything for Him -- EVERY THING -- that includes myself.

I think the point is that your subjective experiences are not anything other people can base anything on. There are people with alternative and frequently contradictory subjective experiences, who believe what they perceived really happened to them just as you believe it really happened to you.

Of course, both you and they insist they are right. As the experiences are contradictory, either one of you are right, or neither of you are right.

As you cannot provide any meaningful differentiation between your claims and their claims, it's reasonable to assume that you are as wrong as all the others that make such claims.

My guess is that no, the Gospel has not been preached or revealed to all those people.

No need to guess, it is a fact.

Jesus gave the "Great Commission" that all His disciples should preach the Gospel to everyone everywhere. What would have been the point if He was just going to save everyone who never heard the Gospel anyway?

Why is being saved not based on whether or not you are a good person. Are you saying that Jesus will not save all good people? Why? It doesn't seem to be very good judgement.

That Scripture is pretty clear -- those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel are going to Hell.

The scripture is also clear that the Creation of man happened well after the first traces of civilisation appeared, that the Flood happened at a point there is no evidence of it happening, that God thinks it's okay to consign virgin girls captured in war to forced relationships and that god thinks it's okay to punish great-great-grand children for their great-great-grand fathers sins.

This makes it clear that either the Bible is a flawed quasi-historical work incorporating the creation myths of a culture, or that god gives us an inaccurate book to guide us and has some funny morals himself.

As such is the case, your claims that those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel are going to Hell are as believable as the story of the Flood, or are the threats of a morally depraved entity with a dodgy sense of humour. It's far easier to accept that you are wrong than it is to accept an all-powerful being has the character of a Bond-villan.

Of course, there is a chance that there is a god we can worship in spirit, who would eclipse these rather comdedic and shallow conceptions of god you draw from the Bible. A god that is not unjust, petty or partial. I'd be glad to worship that god. Unfortunately some people seem so focused on a traditional text-based conception of god they are willing to ignore the obvious contradictions, errors and other indications that the Bible is not inspired.

Just because lots of people believe it doesn't mean that Christianity is any more true than the religions practised by other people, or that ANY of them are accurate.

I really can't say much else -- what else is there to say?

Joe Bloggs

Abaddon, I agree with much that you have stated.

Little Toe,

I wonder if you would mind elaborating a little on what you stated earlier:

2. Name ONE time god has used an angel in modern times to preach to someone. Just one.

: Ermm... ~raises hand~

Are you saying that an angel appeared to you? If so, I would be most interested to read your account of this.

Cheers,

Joe

ellderwho

Compare

Col. 1:22 NWT.........he now has reconciled by means of that ones body through [his] death in order to present you holy and unblemished and opened to no accusation before him.

Youngs; 22in the body of his flesh through the death, to present you holy, and unblemished, and unblameable before himself,

NIV..... 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ?s physical body through death to resent you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation?

The NWT makes reference to Christ as "that ones body" On the other hand the Niv inserts the word Christ.

No wonder the Jws have it that the NT was not written to the R+F.

E

XQsThaiPoes

" It's far easier to accept that you are wrong than it is to accept an all-powerful being has the character of a Bond-villan."

Nope it is easier to accept I am right, and the only way an all powerful being could want to control their "free" creations they claim have choice is because they have "the character of a Bond-villan".

LittleToe

Joe:
This is the wrong media for that kind of conversation.
Are you going to Mike's BBQ?

Besides - why do you want to know?
I don't know you from Adam.

NIV vs NWT

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