Work Experience Brings Back Strange Memories ...

by Wild_Thing 39 Replies latest jw friends

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  gumby

  Wow Gumby, this is almost word for word the reasoning the elders and my parents used to justify beating the hell out of us with belts or sticks or kitchen utensils when we couldn't sit still during meetings, family studies, stand still in field service, when we sassed, didn't clean our rooms... whatever.

  Odrade

  Almost word for word?

  I never would condone beating the hell out of a child with belts, or sticks, or utensils, or anything else.

  Where did you come up with that? I simply said a parent may wish to spank with a paddle. I don't think a spanking with a paddle is going to cause someone to need therapy, nor did I recommend beating the hell out of them. Sheesh!

  Gumby
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  Country Girl

  I believe in firm, yet not angry discipline, with a hand. When I as coming up a Witness, it was nothing for our parents to beat us within an inch of our life for misbehaving during the meetings. That was just the way it was back then. Doesn't mean they were trying to abuse us, it was just what was practiced universally by most of the adults in the hall, not saying it was right or anything. I grew up believing that my child would still get a spanking here and then, but that that would not be my primary means of discipline, and it wasn't. I always refrained from giving him a spanking in anger, and when I did give him one, it was very controlled. Five swats of the hand on the clothed fanny and an explanation why I was doing it. It felt kind of stupid, actually. I quit spanking when he was about 10 or so, cuz it just felt too ridiculous. I did it at some serious times: when he ran into the street, when he left home at 7 and was gone for two hours, stuff like that that was really dangerous.

  I don't know that I'd do it different now. I probably would...

  CG
• 

  Wild_Thing

  Thank you for all who responded ... it is sad, though, that kids are not allowed to be kids.

  As far as placing blame... I think it is only fair for parents to share blame with the society for things they did under the organization's encouragement and influence.

  It seems like families who have been witnesses for generations are more accepting of harsher discipline when it comes to behavior at the meetings. I have noticed some newer witnesses and ones who were not witnesses for very long seem appalled by the strict rules of behavior for young children among the witnesses. It makes me think that it is more of a JW tradition passed down through the generations.

  Galaxy7 ... I can so relate to the fears of destruction! I grew up on the pictures in the red Paradise book and the Revelations book! Not much better! It took me forever to get the images of destruction out of my head!

  And yes ... I did have to go into therapy.
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  undercover

  So what do you believe that is so great and mind freeing?

  If you're referring to another belief system, I don't have one. I have come to the conclusion that organized religion is just man's way of controlling other men, in the name of God. You're not sure if there is a true religion, I'm not sure there is a God. I'm sure that God doesn't operate through any of the religions that I'm aware of.

  But what is great is being myself, thinking for myself, deciding for myself and living the way I want to, not the way some publishing company wants me to. The benefits are great. No meetings to attend. Saturday mornings are for what I want to do instead of selling magazines. No report slips to fill out and turn in to be scrutinized by unqualified men. I can go to the movies and not worry about being seen in line for an R-rated movie. I can go sit at bars with friends and neighbors and not worry that I might be seen and reported to the elders.

  What is so great is that I am free. Free from the dictates and dogma of religion.
• 

  Who cares

  Underwear-- Just what I thought, you have a fear of man!!! You were afraid of the people in the religion. I do feel most are unqualified and a bunch of hyopcrites but I don't care what they think. I can sit in a bar with my wife and friends or go to any movie I want. I am not a slave to what other people think. You probably replaced your fear of brothers with something else. My point is people blame the religion for their own short comings. You were afraid to be yourself because you thought too much of what they elders said or what other people think. You need to learn to be yourself in any situation. I bet your still not a "free" person. I don't mine to flame you but I don't like the bros being to be blamed for everything.

  I am a fourth gen JW and my kids are fifth gen. My parents never spanked me because I was bad at meetings and I will never spank my children for what any man said. Kids are not ment
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  Odrade

  Gumby, how exactly is a paddle different from a wooden spoon or a stick, or for that matter a belt. The sole purpose of the paddle is to get a better whack without injury to the punisher.

  My dad, mom and the elders used to say "Different kids need different forms of discipline. ****(My little brother) we could spank him all day long until no one could stand up, and he still would do it again. ****(me) we can usually just talk to or give her a restriction. A whole generation of children got ruined by the expert advice. Thank Jehovah for the wise counsel in the bible about discipline. It's too bad we have to spank so much, but if it works..."

  Then the elders would praise them for being such good parents and having the "courage" to "discipline" us. Nobody was under any delusion that we were getting a swat on the rump to get our attention either. I KNOW people in the hall heard us screaming. Well, except for the at the Kingdom hall because if we screamed there, we got hit more. It was no secret. Yet they were an example. I got my last beating when I was 18 years old because as long as I was a child I was still under headship and subject to discipline.

  Do you know what it's like to wake up in the middle of the night with all your lower body muscles clenched so tight that you have no feeling left in your legs, because you had a nightmare about getting a "spanking?" Then you have no right to tell me what kind of "spanking" is going to cause someone to need therapy. I suppose I would have been better if they had stuck to beating me with only one object... say, a paddle. Because it's totally acceptable to "spank" a little kid with a paddle to make them sit unnaturally still and quiet for 2 hours. Take a look at the next 3-5 year old child you see. A really good look. Then imagine yourself going and getting a ping pong paddle, then you, an adult, winding up and hitting this 40 pound child with it on the butt or legs. Look at the paddle, look at the legs. Then think about it next time you try to minimize the impact that this so-called "appropriate discipline" has on a small child.

  I'll raise your *sheesh* with a "shame on you."
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  Sunnygal41

  The best disipline I saw was an elder whose pre-teen son was misbehaving. He made his son get up and walk out to the lobby, staying 3 steps in front of his dad all the way. The son would stop, look back, Dad would stop, motion for him to continue and they had a deep man to boy talk, no violence, in the lobby. They came back in side by side, Dad's arm around the son and they sat down and the son behaved the rest of the meeting.

  Undercover, this is certainly totally appropriate for the age involved. It is much easier to reason intellectually with a pre-teenager than it is with a baby or young one. In the young one's or baby's case, getting up and walking outside or taking a drive, as one sister shared with me, works with younger ones. The only problem being that the burden usually falls on mom, instead of being split between both parents. Then, the imbalance becomes again obvious. However, I don't think that any baby or young one, under the age of reason is hardwired to deal with sitting for 2 hours, imo.

  Terri
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  undercover

  Just what I thought, you have a fear of man!!! You were afraid of the people in the religion. .... You were afraid to be yourself because you thought too much of what they elders said or what other people think.

  It's not fear of man that we have/had, it was a fear of God. The WTS uses this fear of God to control its members. But you're right in one sense because this fear of God does over time become a fear of man. We replace God with the WTS and its representatives. Once we realize that the WTS does not speak for God we realize that we were fearing the wrong entitiy. We obeyed and feared retribution for not towing the line because we thought it was displeasing to God but in actuality it was fear of the WTS. Someone true to themselves will realize that and no longer allow the WTS to influence them.

  I do feel most are unqualified and a bunch of hyopcrites but I don't care what they think. I can sit in a bar with my wife and friends or go to any movie I want. I am not a slave to what other people think.

  I doubt that your a JW in good standing. That, or you're leading a double life(tm). You accept some of the teachings of the WTS. In fact, I think they are right about a couple of things myself. But this does not mean that they are God's organization. They claim they are. Some of their doctrines have been proven wrong. Their predictions have not come true. All these things that they speak in the name of God were wrong. So they got the teaching on hellfire correct. Big deal. Is this enough to warrant giving your allegiance to them? If you're not a slave to them, why do you worship with them? Why are you afraid to leave?

  You probably replaced your fear of brothers with something else. .... I bet your still not a "free" person.

  As I stated before, I replaced my "fear" of God/WTS with freedom of religious dogma. I do not accept any religion as speaking for God nor will I ever let religion have any significant influence in my life. In the context of religious discussion, that is freedom.
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  undercover

  Sunnygal, I agree with you, it's hard to reason with a two year old the same way you would with a 13 year old. I think people need to realize that babies and toddlers just are not going to sit still for two hours no matter what you do. Hitting them is not the answer.

  I listed the two examples as extremes that I have seen in the hall. There are both good and bad parents in the organization. What I didn't mention but does have some bearing, is that the sensible father, was a sensible, merciful, good man while the evil grandfather who beat his grandaughter was just a terrible person. Both were elders, but definately were worlds apart at how they followed Christ's example.
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  blacksheep

  I have two young children, both "holy terrors," translation: active, alert, intelligent, curious. I believe the entire premise of forcing small children to sit quietly for hours on end is abusive in an of itself. Many other churches at least have play areas for children. Not the JW's.

  The JW's promote this abnormal behavior, and they promote spanking. I remember my sister and I playing dolls when we were kids. We always pretended we were at meetings trying to keep our "babies" quiet. When they failed to sit quietly, we took them into the next room and spanked them.

  Sick.