Astrology, the Zodiac, etc............ (page 10)

LittleToe

To be honest, it's an attitude that stops "reasonable debate" dead in it's tracks.

I suspect there are many that are interested in the pros and cons of a subject, such as this.
Diving in with jackboots tends to scare the more faint-hearted off. Hence we end up with a greater proportion of lurkers to posters.

I have to ask why? For fear they get sucked into something destructive? Or, more likely, to satisfy some form of mental masturbation where skeptics can abuse believers?
I, for one, am getting pretty sick of it.
If you want a board full of skeptics, with no dissenting opinions, then keep up the good work.
There aren't many of us who consistently take such shyte...

Personally I find it interesting that the relationships that I had with all the "Taurians" that I ever dated, ended the same way, distinct from other g/f's. I also find it interesting that my "chart" pinpointed several upheavals in my live. There was a pattern.
Skeptics may want to poo-poo that, but I don't see any reasonable opposing proposal, when it's something so consistent.

Feel free to offer compelling theories, but let the discussion get underway, first.
All I'd personally ask for would be a little patience, to let things get going, rather than charging in with a premature ejaculation of skeptical arrogance...

Big Tex

Sounds like censuring without reason to me

Nonsense. There is nothing stopping you, or logan or rem or anyone else from starting your own thread about astrology. If you were forbidden to to start your own thread, then yes I would agree with you and it would be censure. But it seems to me that this thread was started by someone who believes in astrology and it was hijacked into a debate about its veracity.

Arguments and discussion have been made, on this thread. All she was asking is your respect her belief in astrology and ability to carry on a conversation with those who also want to discuss. I think it is fair and reasonable of her to ask any arguments and debate about astrology to go to another thread. Some people don't want to spend all day every day arguing.

You are welcome to your beliefs and to expressing them. Extend those with polar views the same courtesy.

It cuts both ways. All I'm saying is if someone wants to make the argument about the validity of astrology, make your own thread. It is setting a boundary, not censuring freedom of speech.

I did not say astrology arguments are forbidden on this board, and I resent the fact that my statement is being spun that way.

Abaddon

Woah Big Tex, I didn't say anything about you; the response that I made was a direct response to the posts in this thread (including the initial one) that address whether or not it's okay to request that there be no dissenting views on a thread.

Thus my post ( and others addressing whether it is even right to make such a request) is as on topic as the first in the thread.

As the topic and the manner in which it is being disucssed in no way infringe posting guidelines, any moderater action would be the ad hoc impostition of an individual's opinion... which is EXACTLY what people are really complaining about.

Why is it okay to request dissenters stay quiet for a thread about astrology, and not for a thread about Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs made by a 'true beliver'?

Time to go home now... see you all tomorrow

detective

I did not say astrology arguments are forbidden on this board, and I resent the fact that my statement is being spun that way

With all due respect, you are saying that any comments that are not in agreement with the pro-astrology perspective are not welcome on this thread- which is, of course, an appropriate place for those types of ~discussion~.

I personally haven't said boo about the topic either way (though a friend did my numbers and after a thorough examination of compatibility through numerology, it turns out much to my unending glee that David Hasselhoff and I would make a stunningly good couple- so I'm looking forward to one day meeting him, having drinks and spawning).

That said, I can't imagine a bigger red flag than someone in effect saying "don't put the other side of the argument in this so-called discussion". What possible drawback is there to having another side of the argument included in this thread? Instead, creating another thread because somebody wants so desperately to believe that their grasp on a certain belief is so tenative that they can't handle a counter opinion? Here? At Jehovahs-Witness.com? Again- it's just plain weak, and pretty surprising all things considered.

Frankly, I think it's an enormous misstep to allow that sort of silliness. Aren't most of the people on this board here because they had the courage to entertain an opposing opinion in the first place?

Big Tex

Woah Big Tex, I didn't say anything about you

And my last comment wasn't aimed at you, rather in response to dectective's post. I'm sorry I was unclear.

the response that I made was a direct response to the posts in this thread (including the initial one) that address whether or not it's okay to request that there be no dissenting views on a thread.
Thus my post ( and others addressing whether it is even right to make such a request) is as on topic as the first in the thread.

There have been dissenting views on this thread. I have no problem with anyone expressing dissenting views. There have been other threads in the past (one by m0nk3y comes to mind) in which the user who started the thread objected over the thread being hijacked. Again, those that don't accept astrology have posted on this thread. I hear Terri's statement as a request to to be allowed to get the topic back to where she, and others, were discussing.

As the topic and the manner in which it is being disucssed in no way infringe posting guidelines, any moderater action would be the ad hoc impostition of an individual's opinion... which is EXACTLY what people are really complaining about.

You're correct, no posting guidelines have been violated. And I'm sorry you feel that my agreeing with Terri's request was an 'ad hoc imposition'. I've not said, nor am I saying now, that disagreement with astrology is forbidden. I am asking that those that want to present the facts against astrology should now start their own thread. Both sides of the argument have been presented and Terri is asking to be allowed to return the thread to her original intent. I don't believe in astrology, but I can respect someone else enough to allow them the freedom to discuss the subject. I really don't see what the big deal is here. Again, if you feel that strongly about astrology, start your own thread. I have no problem with that at all.

Why is it okay to request dissenters stay quiet for a thread about astrology, and not for a thread about Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs made by a 'true beliver'?

You'll have to help me out on this one. Forgive me, but I don't follow. Must be the single digit IQ kicking in again.

Chris

Big Tex

That said, I can't imagine a bigger red flag than someone in effect saying "don't put the other side of the argument in this so-called discussion". What possible drawback is there to having another side of the argument included in this thread?

This thread is now 5 pages, rapidly heading toward 6. You first posted your objection on page 1, so there has been quite a lot of discussion and evidence and facts against astrology. I have no problem with that. After 5 pages, sunnygal grew tired of the argument and asked for space to continue her original disscusion. I've followed this thread from the beginning. If I was determined to impose my belief, or sunnygal's for that matter, on the board, I would have done so the first page. But I let the discussion go in hopes it would even out.

Frankly it's irritating to see some people determined to shove their beliefs on to another. I think after this point, those that believe or are curious about, astrology are well aware of the arguments against. There is no need to pound someone into submission. That's all.

Can we not be secure enough in our own belief system and allow others to believe something different? There comes a time when you just let it go.

Chris

logansrun

I think after this point, those that believe or are curious about, astrology are well aware of the arguments against.

Maybe, maybe not. And maybe some people will stubbornly refuse to disbelieve in something no matter what the evidence is against it, ie "scholars" convoluted ramblings about how Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 and ScoobySnax' emotional meanderings about how good the JWs are.

I've often felt that if you really care about something, you will want to hear all the arguments against it. If it can stand up to that it's that much more solid. This is the approach that got me out of a cult. Do you think my reasoning is wrong?

Bradley

logansrun

For instance...

I've had a couple people in my history of postin on JWD who have argued against notions I've made. I was once laid into BIG TIME by Farkel for my use of the phrase, "logical fallacy" (I really didn't know what I was talking about). I was pretty pissed off that I got blasted, but I learned from the mistake and appreciated it in the end.

Bradley

Gretchen956

So the answer is, no, it is not possible on JWD to have a place for like minded people to discuss an issue without ridicule (debate my a$$, you are calling anyone who believe's in astrology imbeciles). I've seen it over and over again, threads are taken over by the pugnacious and rapacious. Guess that answers the question.

Gretchen

frankiespeakin

I think Terri is making a reasonable request and I think Chris,,is trying like hell to be fair.

After all we are not responsible for what people want to believe. I think this disscussion will eventually move along and this may become an interesting thread,,I think it already has become an interesting thread,,and I think the veiws of every one that has commented have added to its appeal and interest.

We are all getting to know each other and there is bound to be friction,,but that is the only way we really get to know each other sometimes we clash. someone might be a vergo and another a 69 its all written in the stars.

Sorona I think gets irrated at my use of ,,,,,,,,,,,,commas,,,I on the other hand would feel inclind to tease her and use,,,,,,these things all the time. May be if we irrate each other a little we get to know each other a little more.

Astrology, the Zodiac, etc............

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