Astrology, the Zodiac, etc............

by Sunnygal41 151 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Hi Big Tex...

    You're correct, no posting guidelines have been violated. And I'm sorry you feel that my agreeing with Terri's request was an 'ad hoc imposition'. I've not said, nor am I saying now, that disagreement with astrology is forbidden.

    No, but you are validating the idea that someone may at whim ask that people who disagree with them stay out of their thread. Can you not see the conflict with this and the words 'DISCUSSION board'?

    I am asking that those that want to present the facts against astrology should now start their own thread.

    I agree with you on that; I wasn;t going to post onto this thread until I saw the request to not dissent... and that, whether Terri meant it to be or not, is equally a topic of this thread. There was nothing wrong with the way Terri amde the request - she's a nice person. But that is different to whether she was right to ask.

    There are two things. First, this for me has nothing to do with Astrology. It could even be about something like, say, movies, where there is no real closure available over the soundness of opinion on what was the best film. Even if an atheist or evolutionist made a thread on their pet subject requesting those with opposing views keep quiet, I would object to their request.

    Second, it is the validation of the idea it is okay to ask people not to respond that is the problem.

    If it was a discussion about 'Gone With The Wind' being the best movie ever, and the person starting the thread requested that those opposed to this viewpoint didn't comment, I would object. This is, at risk of stressing the point, a DISCUSSION board. It's a PUBLICALLY accessable board. Nowhere does it say this is a board where private individuals can request people stay out of their threads unless they're going to agree with them. How appropriate this request is on a board for survivors of a cultic group where freedom of speech is routinely suppressed is up for the individual to judge and I think you can tell what my opinion is.

    If a practising Jehovah's Witness came to this board and started a thread where they requested people with opposing views to those that they held did not comment, they would be ridiculed.

    Why is it okay to make a similar request for astrology (or Cavanism, or Islam or whatever).

    Maybe I'll actually get an answer to that...

    To me, asides for the presise nature of the community on this biard, that request is simply ridiculous on anything called a DISCUSSION BOARD, and would be whether the subject asking for protection was movies, politics, flower arranging, origami or religion.

    Gretchen, are there no subjects where people hold views that you find utterly unsound (racism, homophobia, etc.)? Don't you think now that Jehovah's Witnesses have ridiculous beliefs??

    I feel to imply that it's okay to hold certain opinions on subjects x, y, z is alright, but to hold them about astrology is not is unsound - unless one can demonstrate a meangful difference between the subjects. As racism is as scientifically sound as astrology, I don't think there is any such differentiation in this case. That one is automatically harmful and one is only potentially harmmful is immaterial; their foundations are equally contrived and insubstansial (for all there are people that believe fervently in both).

    Surely we learnt as a process of exiting the Dubbies that any belief you cannot defend is not worth having?

    The JW's beliefs are not only not defensable, they create a social structure where their beliefs are protected from the least bit of dissent.

    To, even for the best of motives, allow it to be accepted that belief structures that are not defensable should be protected from any dissent, is surely unwise in the extreme.

    Xena, why the routine? As far as I can see if people weren't so 'special' and didn't ask for special protection or respond to a discussion they don't want to have (i.e. about the validity of astrology as opposed to the details of astrology), then this thread would go on as Terri originally intended bar the tie on opposing views. It is ONLY the request for no dissenting views that has caused so much fuss, and that's not surprising as it is indefensable (if it is, go ahead).

    Maybe some of us poor cult victims are still arguing like chainsaws as a product of our cultic programming, but we have to live with that just as those who still retain uncritical thinking processes as a product of their cultic programming have to live with that - and both of us have to live with each other.

  • Mulan
    Mulan
    As for Steve being Taurian, and strong as a bull, should I take that as a hint to stop flirting?

    He is very secure, and I imagine he is sitting back laughing. (he lurks you know)

  • Sunnygal41
    Sunnygal41

    Hi, everyone! Sorry it's taken me so long to get back here, but, I had a bit of an accident this weekend........being a klutz, I was out walking and tripped and fell, spraining my ankle and wrist and bumping my head........I have bruises everywhere.......a nice motorist stopped, picked me up, loaded me in his car and brought me home..........there are still "good Samaritans" in the human race...............anyways, I've read thru most of the threads and wish to now respond to Bradley and Detective. Maybe this will stir the pot, but, I feel the need to comment and then, I'll sooth my ruffled Raven feathers and move on to posting more information...........

    Do you like having a discussion about something you are interested in only to have another person keep interrupting to tell you they don't believe what you are saying?

    It's rude.

    Princess, that is it exactly. It is rude. I wanted to have a discussion of something I find totally fascinating and see what anyone else might have to say about it's veracity. I can understand that people can be passionate about their beliefs. However, I don't think it's too much to ask that if people don't believe this stuff they could start another thread that would allow opposing views. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm sharing information that I have found, and it is up to everyone else to either agree or disagree with it. Some dissenters keep comparing this to the tactics of the WTS..........I don't think I've exhibited those tactics here. I just want those who just want to talk and share to be able to do so in a comfortable, calm setting.

    Frankie, I like your people skills! Those are very good comments you made about getting to know one another.

    Mulan, I read once that you are born when you were meant to be. Again, I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a comment that will probably get me harassed, but, I feel that things happen for a reason. My personal belief is that we pick the time and place of our birth. We pick the people who will be our family. I've read quite a bit of interesting information regarding this in books such as The Celestine Prophecy by James Redfield. I've also read alot of N eale Donald Walsch?s "Conversations with God" series. Fascinating stuff. I was once told that in life you should "take what you want, and leave the rest". I think that is what having personal freedom of mind is all about.

    Bradley, I know you may think I'm totally brainwashed.....as you put it, some people have a gene for bullshit......and I think you accused Little Toe of having it also.......however, let me just say that my reading habits are quite extensive, as are my analytical faculties. I've read things by Ken Wilber, you might be familiar with him? I have his book, ?A Brief History of Everything?. Also I have read and possess books by Stephen Hawking???.?The Universe in a Nutshell?, ?Cosmos? by Carl Sagan, ?Balancing Heaven and Earth? by Robert Johnson, who is a student of Jung, ?A Blue Fire? by James Hillman, William Manchester?s ?The Glory and the Dream????I could go on???but, why do I feel the need to defend myself, intellectually to you? I?ve allowed your appraisal and view to put me on the defensive, and I don?t like myself for that. I am not into debating???.I am into discussing, and I feel that you are too rabid and ?ascerbic? as some have mentioned. Again, please, just let us all have a nice, calm discussion, peaceful and interesting, allowing each to retain their human dignity and show kindness to one another.

    Thank you all who have supported the thread. I will be reviewing everyone?s comments again, and responding to questions etc, as well as posting more info., and feel free to continue posting links to interesting sites, etc.!

    Terri

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Terri,

    I think that the only comfort and calm we have is that which we have ourselves.

    If you can carry on a conversation where you don't react to the nay-sayers you are not interested in talking to anyway... then you've achieved your aims with out imposing requirements on others they might be uncomfortable with... as I don't think the yay-sayers have considered the nay-sayers feelings anymore than the nay-sayers have considered the yay-sayers'.

    If you respond to the nay-sayers, you'll only encourage them, as I don't think either you or they are going to change their minds. So, for guaranteed peace and calm... don't read their posts, it'll drive them mad, especially Bradley...

    ;-) at Bradley

    I understand your motives Terri, just disagree with your method, but that doesn't mean I don't wish you all the best... hope your fall injuries are healing well and not bugging you.

  • Princess
    Princess

    Were you flirting with me Ross? I hadn't noticed.

  • detective
    detective

    Well said, Abaddon... and precisely the point I was trying to make (however unsuccessfully!)

    Take care,

    Detective

  • TRUTH SEEKER
    TRUTH SEEKER

    I am a Leo and so far everything that I have read about Leo's apply to me. I have had readings done (three, to be exact) and I always walk out of it thinking I will never do it again but I do. 98% of what is said either happens or has, and I do not know the people doing the readings. I always wanted to have a chart done.

    My son is a Leo and we are very much the same. I don't know what my daughter is- she was born in January- but she is similar to my MIL, my sister and my brother who were all born in January. They all have the same temperament and see the world the same way. My husband is a Pisces (sp?). We are polar opposits but it's fun for us.

    Jill

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Me?...
    Flirt?...

    ...never!!!

  • codeblue
    codeblue

    Terri:

    I have enjoyed your thread..(not the argumentive comments though)...and would love a reading from ya!!!

    Hope you start feeling better soon!!!

    Codeblue

  • Princess
    Princess

    liar

    Terri, sorry to hear about your accident. You probably missed the rapid debate thread which was locked after about 20 minutes. Blame it on FMZ, he was a hero calling everyone all sorts of names like, edit, edit, edit, edit. I was so proud of him.

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