Am I Codependent ? Now I'm a Bully?

by Jang 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • Jang
    Jang

    Tina, I had to do the the CAQ - Clinical Analysis Questionnaire

    Seeing as I have nothing to hide, this is a summary of my results .....

    PSYCHOPATHOLOGY SUMMARY
    Hypochondriasis: Not inclined to turn emotional problems into physical or "nervous" problems.
    Suicidal Depression: Suicide not seen as an alternative
    Anxious Depression: Not Anxious and Depressed at the same time, and able to cope with the sudden demands that often occur in life.
    Low Energy Depression: Very much gloom, listlessness and low energy reported. Chronic Fatigue has these same symptoms
    Guilt and Resentment: Moderate guilt and resentment reported.
    Suspicion and Jealousy: Very low degree of suspiciousness or jealousy .
    Schizophrenia: No indication .
    Psychological Inadequacy: Moderate feelings of insignificance or inadequacy

    PART 2 -- PERSONALITY

    I. INTROVERSION-EXTRAVERSION: Average: More oriented to what's going on in the inner world than the world outside of self. Averagely gregarious, talkative, adventurous and self reliant. Probably get about as much pleasure from inner stimuli and involvement as from outer stimuli and involvement, or may vacillate somewhat between them.

    II. VERY ANXIOUS: Not inclined to be tense or easily frustrated.

    III. SUBJECTIVE-OBJECTIVE: Average: About equally alert to physical stimuli in the environment and to the inner stimuli such as feelings, artistic values or empathy and placing about equal value on each.

    IV. VERY INDEPENDENT: Sense of identity and orientation is largely inside themselves.

    CONTROL vs. HIGH EGO CONTROL
    Tolerate frustration, control moods and reactions and cope with the demands of everyday life more than most people. Solve problems realistically, anticipate consequences, and inhibit impulses as often as not. Actually more on the side of realism and stable emotional control. (Ego control somewhat on the strong side.)

    E SUBMISSION vs. DOMINANCE
    Probably moderately in charge of relationships rather than dominant. Can be expected to defer to others when appropriate. In normal circumstances unlikely to get into power struggles or show passive-aggressive behavior.

    G MORAL AND ETHICAL VALUES (SUPER EGO)
    Have conventionally moral and ethical values and can be presumed to be averagely conscientious. May be expected to consider moral implications of situations and be guided by conscience, and probably a bit more so than usual.

    H SOCIAL AND PHYSICAL STIMULUS TOLERANCE
    Have the same degree of shyness and timidity as most people. May take occasional physical or social risks. Cope with ordinary levels of social or physical stimuli without feeling overwhelmed.

    M PRACTICAL vs. IMAGINATIVE
    In processing information they rely, on both sensory input from the environment as well as their own mental processes -- such as introspection or fantasy. As imaginative and practical as most people. With more tendency toward being practical.

    N SOCIALLY STRAIGHTFORWARD vs. DIPLOMATIC (SHREWD)
    Give an ordinary amount of thought to being polite and tactful. Unlikely to manipulate others- Somewhat on the side of straight-forwardness.

    O UNTROUBLED ADEQUACY vs. GUILT/SHAME PRONENESS
    Has probably an average level of self-esteem, which is essentially based on reality. Experience guilt, self-doubt, and shame when these reactions are appropriate.

    Q1 CONSERVATIVE vs. RADICAL
    Have some traditional beliefs and values, but not closed to new experiences and ideas. Have same degree of difficulty coping with change experienced by most people. But lean in the direction of conservatism and resistance to change.

    Q3 UNDISCIPLINED vs. SELF-DISCIPLINED
    Have achieved a sense of personal identity without being strongly self-absorbed. Show an average amount of concern for preserving social reputation and self-respect, and desire to avoid shame and embarrassment. Little inclination toward concern about a socially approved self-image.

    Q4 TENSION
    Experience an average level of tension. Neither lethargic nor tense and restless.

    JUNGIAN PERSONALITY TYPES
    The following is an estimate of Jungian personality type based on the 16 personality factors.

    E Extroverted
    S Sensing
    T Thinking
    J Judging

    I will admit wrong when I have done wrong Tina.

    JanG
    CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
    Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

  • COMF
    COMF

    I'd say this is a "don't ask, don't tell" situation, like being gay in the American military. No resolution can come from it; best to just move on.

    COMF

  • Jang
    Jang

    Comf, it would be so nice if the sharks would go eat seaweed and stop trying to eat people.

    This is expecting perfection of others and not allowing people to be human.

    Tina has made continual accusations that I am co-dependent, controlling, manipulative, and in need to therapy. She says she makes this as a private person and not as a therapist which is impossible because of her training.

    When we are therapists we cannot respond like that as private people, especially on a public forum. What if I had been someone needing that sort of help Comf? Is that how we help eh?

    I have opened up to Tina to reveal the results of therapeutic testing of myself to her and everyone who cares to read it. I put up, so here is hoping that Tina will now shut up.

    JanG
    CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
    Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

  • Roamingfeline
    Roamingfeline

    Although I don't have as much formal training as Tina, I do have enough of it to say that I would have to agree with Tina that you are definitely controlling and manipulative, Jan. The lengths I have seen you go to in order to sidestep your culpability in the issue of your email list just proves my point. A person in need of help never sees themselves as such. I wouldn't classify us as "sharks". I would classify us as women who are courageous enough to stand up to a bully, publicly. A passive/agressive bully, to be sure, but a bully still nonetheless.

    RCat

  • Tina
    Tina

    Oh yes I can respond Jan. And as a regular person. Talking about therapy is NOT doin therapy. You can't see the difference.
    Then doctors better not chime on on medical matters. Then auto repairmen better not chime in when cars are the topic,computer techies better not chime in when programming is the topic,andon and on and on.
    And dont tell me to shut up,everytime an issue makes you uncomfortable.This is the second or third time you've told me to shut up..... your bullying/controlling wont work here. No one has to have special training to observe and come to a conclusion on your behavior. It's blatant.

  • Jang
    Jang

    I find it interesting that you, Tina and Teresa, are accusing me of the very things you say i am doing.

    Very interesting......

    Your reactions speak for themselves

    JanG
    CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
    Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

  • WildHorses
    WildHorses

    Jan, I for the most part do like you, but on this issue I have to side with the others.

    Not only are you coming across as controling but it seems that you must always have the last word. God I hate that. My sister is the same way. You could never win an arguement even when you know you are right because she would never shut up.

    Lilacs

  • Jang
    Jang

    Tina

    your bullying/controlling wont work here

    So now I am a bully Tina ....

    Interesting that you should bring that up. Is it a little bit of projection we see here?

    WHAT IS BULLYING

    Bullying, covers the whole range of behaviours from the relatively mild and commonplace unkind teasing or put-down or uncalled for criticism, to the appalling acts most of us would be, or would hope and believe ourselves to be incapable of, such as murder, mutilation and massacre.

    *** constant nit-picking, fault-finding and criticism of a trivial nature - the triviality, regularity and frequency betray bullying; often there is a grain of truth (but only a grain) in the criticism to fool you into believing the criticism has validity, which it does not; often, the criticism is based on distortion, misrepresentation or fabrication
    *** simultaneous with the criticism, a constant refusal to acknowledge you and your contributions and achievements or to recognise your existence and value
    *** constant attempts to undermine you and your position, status, worth, value and potential
    *** where you are in a group, being singled out and treated differently; for instance, everyone else can get away with murder but the moment you put a foot wrong - however trivial - action is taken against you
    *** being isolated and separated, excluded from what's going on, marginalised, overruled, ignored, sidelined, frozen out, sent to Coventry
    *** being belittled, demeaned and patronised, especially in front of others
    *** being humiliated, shouted at and threatened, often in front of others
    *** finding that everything you say and do is twisted, distorted and misrepresented

    The bully selects their target using the following criteria:

    *** bullies are predatory and opportunistic - you just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time; this is always the main reason - investigation will reveal a string of predecessors, and you will have a string of successors
    *** being good at your job, often excelling
    *** being popular with people (colleagues, clients, etc)
    *** more than anything else, the bully fears exposure of his/her inadequacy and incompetence; your presence, popularity and competence unknowingly and unwittingly fuel that fear
    *** being the guru and the person to whom others come for advice, either personal or professional
    *** having at least one vulnerability that can be expolited (see below)
    *** showing independence of thought

    Jealousy (of relationships and perceived exclusion therefrom) and envy (of talents, abilities, circumstances or possessions) are strong motivators of bullying . Bullies are predators and choose their prey by homing in on vulnerability. Everyone has vulnerabilities.

    *** because you care - about your work, about your clients, about your colleagues, about your family, and about people
    *** having integrity which you are unwilling to compromise or sacrifice
    *** being reasonable and with a strong sense of fair play
    *** having a well-developed sense of guilt
    *** having a different religious belief
    *** having a disability or perceived disability

    Targets of bullying usually have these qualities:

    *** helpful, always willing to share knowledge and experience
    *** a sense of humour, particularily displays of quick-wittedness
    *** imaginative, creative, innovative
    *** ability to master new skills
    *** ability to think long term and to see the bigger picture
    *** sensitivity
    *** slow to anger
    *** giving and selfless
    *** popularity (this stimulates jealousy in the less-than-popular bully)
    *** competence (this stimulates envy in the less-than-competent bully)
    *** intelligence and intellect
    *** honesty and integrity (which bullies despise)
    *** you're trustworthy, trusting, conscientious, loyal and dependable
    *** successful, tenacious, determined, courageous, having fortitude
    *** difficulty saying no
    *** diligent, industrious
    *** tolerant
    *** strong sense of honour
    *** irrepressible, wanting to tackle and correct injustice wherever you see it
    *** low propensity to violence (ie you prefer to resolve conflict through dialogue rather than through violence or legal action)
    *** a strong forgiving streak and a desire to think well of others (which the bully exploits and manipulates to dissuade you from taking grievance and legal action)
    *** being incorruptible, having high moral standards which you are unwilling to compromise
    *** high expectations of those in authority and a dislike of incompetent people in positions of power who abuse power
    *** a strong sense of fair play and a desire to always be reasonable
    *** high coping skills under stress, especially when the injury to health becomes apparent
    *** internalise anger rather than express it
    ***

    Often the target is obliged - into giving another long explanation to prove the bully's allegation false; by the time the explanation is complete, everybody has forgotten the original question.

    Projection

    Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be painful), and to distract and divert attention away from themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this, every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves.

    This knowledge can be used to perceive the bully's own misdemeanours; for instance, when the bully makes an allegation of abuse (such allegations tend to be vague and non-specific), it is likely to be the bully who has committed the abuse. When the bully makes allegations of, say, "cowardice" or "negative attitude" it is the bully who is a coward or has a negative attitude.

    Most bullies will play the Mental Health Trap, claiming their target is "mentally ill" or "mentally unstable" or has a "mental health problem". It is more likely that this allegation is a projection of the bully's own mental health problems.

    In most bullying situations, the target of bullying finds themself isolated and alone. People who may formerly have been friendly and supportive, melt away and the target is left feeling like a pariah and an outcast.

    There are many reasons why others fail to come to the person being bullied. These include:

    *** the bully has warned everybody off
    *** very few people stand up against bullying, harassment, corruption etc; the target is selected often because they do have this moral courage; most people will pass by on the other side, only targets have the integrity to be a good Samaritan
    *** in the presence of an aggressor, particularly a devious, manipulative, charming one, many people prefer to act more like sheep than humans
    *** understanding of bullying is low and many people still hold outdated views such as "why don't you stand up for yourself?" [answer - because the moment you assert your right not to be bullied the bully moves into phase two of the bullying process which is elimination] and "if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen"
    *** in environments where the bullying is entrenched, it's regarded as "normal" behaviour
    *** unlike assault and harassment, bullying is subtle and comprises hundreds, perhaps thousands, of incidents which out of context and in isolation are trivial - thus bystanders can't see the full picture
    *** bullies exert power and control by a combination of selectively withholding information and spreading disinformation, therefore everyone has a distorted picture - of only what the bully wants them to see
    *** bullying may be carried out in front of people who are unable to recognise the tactics of bullying, especially the use of guilt and sarcasm
    *** the bully goes to great lengths to undermine their target and portray them as a poor performer
    *** bullies, especially female bullies, are masters of manipulation, and are fond of manipulating people through their emotions (eg guilt); bullies see any form of vulnerability as an opportunity for manipulation and exploitation
    *** bullies are adept at manipulating peoples' perceptions with intent to engender a negative view of the target in the minds others - this is achieved through undermining, including the creation of doubts and suspicions and the sharing of false concerns
    *** bullies poison the atmosphere and actively poison people's minds against the target
    *** the bully encourages and manipulates bystanders to lie, act dishonourably and dishonestly, withhold information and spread misinformation
    *** the bully manipulates bystanders to punish the target for alleged infractions, ie the bystanders become instruments of harassment
    *** the bully is often able to mislead one especially emotionally needy bystander into being their easily controlled spokesperson / advocate / supporter / denier
    *** the bully often forms an alliance with someone who has the same behaviour profile, thus increasing the levels of threat, fear and dysfunction
    *** the bully is able to charm and manipulate a number of bystanders to act as supporters, assistants, reinforcers, appeasers, deniers, apologists and minimisers
    *** many people do not have the emotional intelligence or behavioural maturity to understand bullying, let alone deal with it
    *** when there's conflict in the air, most people want to be on the winning side, or the side they think will survive
    *** some people gain gratification (a perverse feeling of satisfaction) from seeing others in distress and thus become complicit in the bullying
    *** some observers regard behavioural responses that are reasonable and civilised as a sign of weakness rather than maturity
    *** many people lack critical thinking skills and analytical abilities and thus cannot see through the facade or the bully's mask of deceit
    *** the bully grooms bystanders, and the target, to believe the target deserves the treatment they are receiving

    The bully also:

    *** is insensitive, often callously indifferent to the needs of others, and especially when others are experiencing difficulty (vulnerability is a major stimulant to the serial bully)
    *** is unable and unwilling to reciprocate any positive gesture
    *** sees anyone attempting to be conciliatory as a sucker to be exploited
    *** uses criticism, humiliation, etc in the guise of addressing shortfalls in performance - in reality, these are for control and subjugation, [EM]not[/EM] for performance enhancement
    *** is unable to maintain confidentiality, often breaching it with misrepresentation, distortion and fabrication
    *** distorts, twists, concocts and fabricates criticisms and allegations for control and subjugation, [EM]not[/EM] for performance enhancement
    *** uses gossip, back-stabbing or spreads rumours to undermine, discredit and isolate
    *** is unusually susceptible to minor slights or perceived slights and bears grudges which may be acted on years later
    *** gains gratification from provoking people into emotional or irrational responses but is quick to claim provocation by others when challenged
    *** appears to have a short, selective memory and often cannot or will not remember what they said, did, or committed to more than 24 hours ago - but is always able to remember your faults, often from years ago
    *** extrovert bullies can be charismatic and seem to be able to bewitch people into following and supporting them
    *** is unable and unwilling to value others and their contributions and achievements; is often scornful
    *** is frequently sarcastic, especially in contexts where sarcasm is inappropriate and unprofessional
    *** has never learnt the skills of and has little concept of empathy; may use charm and mimicry to compensate
    *** attempts at empathy are superficial, amateur, often inappropriate or inappropriately high, and based on mimicry rather than genuine concern - and are for the purpose of making the bully look and feel good, especially in front of witnesses
    *** when required to show empathy, eg someone is in distress or needs help, responds either with impatience and aggression (if no-one else is present), or with a fulsome and effusive attempt at empathy (if witnesses are present)
    *** is quick to blame others
    *** is uncharacteristically fulsome and effusive, especially in front of witnesses - but hollow and insincere
    *** is devious and manipulative (especially female bullies)
    *** is spiteful and vengeful (ditto)
    *** uses aggression almost exclusively but claims to be assertive (assertiveness is about recognising and respecting the rights of oneself and others)
    *** has unpredictable mood swings, blows hot and cold, often suddenly and without warning
    *** is inconsistent in their judgement, often overruling, ignoring or denying what they said previously
    *** is inflexible and unable to evaluate options and alternatives
    *** is unforgiving and often seizes on and exploits others' mistakes or perceived mistakes
    *** can be unpredictably and disarmingly pleasant, especially when you are unmasking them in front others - this plays on people's sympathies and is a use of guilt for manipulation and control

    RULES AND RIGHTS

    Rules are necessary. To play a game, build a house, run a business, put on a show, use a computer, share a home, we need rules - ground rules, house rules, etc. Some rules are natural laws like gravity or the value of pi. Others merely need to be agreed by the participants, as with chess. Bullies believe that others should obey rules when the bullies want them to, but that they should be above the rules, above the law, above suspicion, above reproach. Laws are necessary to counter bullying and restrictions are imposed because people bend and break the rules essential for peace and prosperity.

  • Tina
    Tina

    yeah jan lots of interesting things goin on in this thread-glaringly clear how you take anything people say,and rather than doing some rigorous self examination-point it back at them. You've done that in every post you make...interesting.......when I call your telling me to shut up bullying-thats exactly what it is-no projection...but do keep adding bricks into that wall of denial you have. You've shown the board quite a lot.pathetic,Im not wasting anymore posts on this.

  • Jang
    Jang

    The article on bullying does not describe me as the bully Tina.

    I am standing up to your bullying tactics this time.

    JanG
    CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
    Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

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