by Amazing1914 34 Replies latest jw friends
Why are you knocking 5 year old publishers and unbaptized people?
If a 5 year old that gets 10 hours a month hanging on its mothers skirt and saying "Jehovah" at the watchtower study is not a JW I don't know what is. Also at least now baptizm means nothing for the the "great crowd". I think people should count believers not only seat warmers.
It just strikes me as odd that some want to have it both ways with the Dubs with the same mouth saying: "They're too strict and have too many rules" as well as "They're not strict about what it means to be a JW and a large percentage of them are slackers and/or toddlers." Come on.
My take is they are extremely strict and well organized about both behavior as well as their numbers. I certainly don't think other religions (including the Catholic Church or God's sake!) are any better at this.
Bradley
It is great to see that Faith is alive and well in the US. I know some Secularists here would like to rationalize this fact away, but but the reality is God is here to stay......
As for the "Focus on the Family" and other such nonsense: Were those buildings built with volunteer labor? What type of profit do they make on their literature, programming, etc. ?
Profit and loss are all spelled out clearly on the Focus on the Family website. Where are the WTS ledgers for comparison? That tells me who has more to hide. The WTBTS makes a big show about not being like the other churches where it comes to "giving" (i.e. boxes instead of baskets, volunteer labour), but I find them no less forward about asking for money.
Personally, I find the JWs to be a little more righteous then the Evangelicals when it comes to money. Or most religions for that matter.
Because they told you so? That is a valuative statement. Back it up.
What the numbers don't tell is the fact that the turnover rate among JWs is extremely high. I'm sure it's high in other religions as well (probably less so in the Catholic religion). I realize that none of those figures include turnover rate.
I recall reading somewhere that the JW's have one of the highest turnover rates of all religions. I believe this is true because they put way to many rules/restrictions on people. Often people take it up because they've experienced something very difficult in their lives and turn to the dubs because of the hope that soon, everything will be fixed--a perfect panacea. Depending on the person, when they get strong again, emotionally, mentality, materially...whatever, they realize it's a ration of crap.
jgnat,
Profit and loss are all spelled out clearly on the Focus on the Family website. Where are the WTS ledgers for comparison? That tells me who has more to hide.
I agree that the WTS is far too secretive about, well, most all things. This definitely includes money. I'm not arguing that fact about the JWs, (although it seem rather obvious that guys like Dobson and Pat Robertson are mega-millionaires who run a very profitable empire).
The WTBTS makes a big show about not being like the other churches where it comes to "giving" (i.e. boxes instead of baskets, volunteer labour), but I find them no less forward about asking for money.
Well, that is a matter of opinion and I disagree. Money doesn't come up too often in the JW religion. When they do ask for money I've always felt it was tastefully done.
Personally, I find the JWs to be a little more righteous then the Evangelicals when it comes to money. Or most religions for that matter.Because they told you so? That is a valuative statement. Back it up.
No, not because "they told me so." Because I am fair and balanced (I think) in my estimation. Evangelical TV shows (ie, "The 700 Club") are always offering some lame piece of literature for a price (usually touted as equally lame "love gift" or other such lameness). I saw a flyer put out by an Evangelical Church which advertised seiminars on how to "make it in the economy." Of course this is all for a price.
No one can offer an opinion as if it were some sort of logical axiom. That's why I said "personally I find...."
Bradley
blacksheep,
Most DFd people go back to the organization (unfortunately). In my personal experience I've found that it's very difficult to break free from the Society. Hence, most people stay in. What are your alleged numbers for their turnover rate?
Bradley
Publishers as young as 5 are the exception to the rule. Beware the composition fallacy)
I don't know what the composition fallacy is.
Having been a young person, amongst many young persons, I was an unbaptized publisher at the age of 8, and my sibilings were the same as well as my little friends. Only a few qualified as younger, because of the reading ability requirement.
What am I saying, that the are many JWs that are not spending much productive time in the ministry. I base this on over 40 years with my parent and as an adult. Most recently, people drive around more and do RVs. The song the CO sings in his visits nowadays is that people aren't doing enough door to door. Big surprise.
Strictnesss as to identifying members as active, boils down to recording 1 hour a month (15 minutes if elderly). Hardly the sign of an truly evangelistic group.
Blondie
So Blondie, you feel that hourly reports are a requirement for being counted as part of a religion? Is that what they do at your church? How many hours in the ministry (aside from JWD ) did you put in for your church last month?
First people say that it's not right that the JWs require people to be out in the ministry. Then they criticize JWs for not following the rule they don't agree with. You can't have it both ways.
People criticize the Society for making organizational preaching a requirement, then criticize the Society for allegedly being "too lenient" in what that means. You can't have it both ways.
Bradley
Blondie,
The composition fallacy is mistakenly assuming that just because something is true of a part of the whole that that is also true of the whole.
Bradley
