Do you fear death? (page 8)

Markfromcali

LT,

Enjoying our connection to the divine is one thing, but keeping it's benefits to ourselves is inexcusable, IMHO.

Especially when there is no self to keep it to or from, it just shows one is still confused.

LittleToe

Ah, now we truly get to the crux of the matter...

Is not "possessiveness" of "soul" an issue regarding the concerns over death?

Is death truly loss?
It's inevitable. It just "is".
Another new chapter on the journey of reality from which we so often blind our eyes.

forgetmenot

Unless you've died...you haven't lost yourself like i fear loosing myself.

I think it's kind of like riding a roller coaster...except it ends...in the middle...somwhere...maybe...

Anyway...i think it's like a roller coaster because once you've gotten on...you can't stop it...

Forgetmenot, for what it's worth I (and others) have found that although it is scarey before it happens, you find out you never were that person you thought of as "me", and you actually feel more, not less. Also it's a great load off your shoulders, because it takes a lot of energy to constantly reinforce this image of me. When you finally let go, you have all this energy that's freed up - energy to live. Could it be what we're afraid of is not dying, but living? A static image of self is hardly alive, the more you let go of the image the more you can live unconditionally. You said the thing you most fear is wasting your life away, I say then live your life to the fullest, so much so that you don't have time to worry about wasting it - and then you won't be.

onacruse

Ross:

Is death truly loss?
It's inevitable. It just "is".
Another new chapter on the journey of reality from which we so often blind our eyes.

And in reference to your earlier post about a "mystical experience"; and in reference to frequent posts by Mark...maybe I'm on a verge of recognition...maybe I've already passed that verge, and didn't "recognize" it.

In either case, I must ask:

Is a "mystical" interaction with the Prime Cause a precondition to our continued existence?

Craig (of the "exploring, yet feels very certain in his own beliefs" class)

onacruse

forgetmenot:

Unless you've died...you haven't lost yourself like i fear loosing myself.
I think it's kind of like riding a roller coaster...except it ends...in the middle...somwhere...maybe...
Anyway...i think it's like a roller coaster because once you've gotten on...you can't stop it...

Losing self, finding self, being self.

Only you can lose yourself...in death, or otherwise.

outbutnotdown

Great question!!!!!!

For me, the interesting thing is that I used to FEAR LIFE. And when I was in fear of the life I was in how could I not fear death. Now that I love life..... (and, yes, I do still have everyday stresses, just like everybody else... )...... fearing death has disappeared as well.

Like others, I don't want to rush it, but, hey, when you're happy being alive, what comes after is of little concern. Thanks again for the question.

Brad

outbutnotdown

What an interesting conversation between markfromcali and LittleToe.

LT,

You seem to be quick to take comments and classify them into certain specific areas. Had you not mentioned that Mark's comment was Calvinistic, I would have just thought that it just made good sense. (By the way, I still think that it made good sense... )

There are a lot of sayings in this language that are so profound that they become cliches. It is not the fault of the authors that they then become ridiculed as being cliches. It is the people who have made them so.

Mark,

Great comments, bud. I understand what you mean.

Brad

Markfromcali

Craig, there can be an intellectual recognition, but this is just insight and not really awakening. Likewise an emotional experience that is separate from the mind is also not it. (people can have some deeply moving experiences and believe in the craziest things can't they)

The emphasis on the self, on personal identity is because the thing that dies is what is 'reborn', or freed. So if you have an idea that dies, or even the intellect - one can be reborn intellectually, but this is not the whole person. The mind may be free, but the rest of them is not. Of course, some people are just naturally more of an intellectual anyway, so in that case that may not change. However the point is if the personal identification drops away, then the renewal can begin from the center there and spread out. When someone focuses on acquiring knowledge or emotional experiences, that may just add to more beliefs and emotional idenfication that has to be seen through.

I hope it's clear that 'mystical' can be very ordinary. It can be as simple as being glad to be alive, but even that thought is too much. Often people seem to touch into that and have the experience, but then it doesn't go very deep because they end up reducing it to a thought or maybe song lyrics. In this case it would be a matter of knowing what it is to be alive, and even a sense of gladness and gratitude is superficial in comparison.

When we are touched by something that's true, that is real, we wake up to what is real in ourselves. When this happens, the person - if it comes through that way - may seem to be "balanced" in emotion and intellect, which basically translates to love and wisdom, but really it's more that it is one coherent whole. But if you pause and notice you'll see it isn't even that, it's not how together they are - there's something deeper going on, the only thing that is going on.

onacruse

outbutnotdown/aka Brad,

Trust me on this: Ross and Mark have put me through the ringer about this kinda stuff, and those ~~bastards~~ dear fellows won't let up!

Predestinarianism: BS.

Self-determinism: Reality.

Do you fear death?

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