Comments (abbreviated) You Will Not Hear at the 5-16-04 WT Study (4-1-04)

by blondie 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

blondie

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 5-16-04 (week of 5-10 to 16, 2004) WT Study (4/1/04)
Review comments will be in black and parentheses ()WT quotes
will be in red and quotes "" Quotes from other sources
will be in blue
Only highlights this week. Overtime at work and job hunting has kept me busy.
RELY ON GOD?S SPIRIT IN DEALING WITH LIFE?S CHANGES
"Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God."?2 Timothy 2:15
www.biblegateway.com /cgi-bin/bible
Opening Comments
Once again the WTS reaches back into the OT for a lesson to teach Christians. You would think they could be an example of humility, not taking revenge, listening to discipline, and not hoping in uncertain riches in the NT.
Why doesn?t that make you think of Jesus rather than the example they chose, David.
I have never been comfortable with David as an example, a man who committed adultery with another man?s wife, got her pregnant, and they arranged for the husband to be killed to cover up his sins. His punishment lead to the death of 3 sons and the raping of his wives. David wasn?t put to death as the law said adulterers should be. This is a king too that had a census taken even though he knew God had forbidden it and a good friend warned him. As a punishment he chose a plague that killed 70,000 people. Neither David nor his family died.
START OF ARTICLE
Paragraphs 1-2

We see impressive scientific and technological advances accompanied by a dramatic decline in moral values.

Are they saying advances in the world caused a decline in moral values?
David?s Humility?A Fine Example

Paragraphs 3-6
Commenting on this verse (1 Samuel 18:18), one scholar wrote: "David?s meaning was, that neither on personal grounds, nor on account of his social standing, nor because of his lineage, could he make the slightest pretension to the honour of becoming the son-in-law of the king."
Who is the scholar mentioned here?
Our talents, our achievements, and our privileges should never make us haughty.
Translation: Don?t pursue music, sports, education, or anything else that will make you feel special.
w50 4/15 p. 119 Servants Feed the Flock
The important yet humble position occupied by a servant or slave in the Lord?s congregation was looked down upon with scorn and contempt by these puffed-up and pompous ones who presumptuously assumed shepherdhood over the sheep. Proud and haughty, they pushed aside the privilege of being servants, installed themselves as the ~~clergy~~ overseers (a class not provided or arranged for by either Christ or the apostles), and took upon themselves flattering titles, such as ~~bishop~~ elder, ~~archbishop~~ circuit overseer, ~~metropolitan~~ district overseer, ~~pope~~ zone/branch overseer, ~~sovereign pontiff~~, governing body member etc
"Do Not Avenge Yourselves"
Paragraphs 7-9
David refused to harm Saul. Exercising faith and patience, he was content to leave matters in the hands of Jehovah.
Translation: Wait on Jehovah.
Though he knew that Saul was in the wrong, David did not avenge himself; neither did he speak abusively to Saul or about him. On several occasions, David restrained himself from taking matters into his own hands. Instead, he relied on Jehovah to set things straight.
Translation: Yes, if the elders/GB are wrong, don?t say anything and don?t sue them. Wait on Jehovah.
In any case, be assured that Jehovah sees your situation and will do something about it
In his own due time.
"Listen to Discipline
Paragraphs 10-14
Under the Mosaic Law, adultery was a capital crime.
Stunned, he listened as Nathan rendered Jehovah?s inescapable judgment?.
A sword would not depart from David?s house ( his sons died not him)
Had he not taken Uriah?s wife in secret" A similar evil would come upon him, not in secret, publicly (his wives were raped by David?s son in public)
Why were David?s wives punished; they hadn?t committed murder/adultery?
He did not deny his guilt (not like the WTS in regard to child sexual abuse).
He did not lash out against the prophet Nathan (because he had made David?s sin public; not like the WTS which disfellowships those who speak out)
David accepted responsibility (not saying that untrained elders are responsible).
Jehovah did not shield David from the bitter consequences of his sin, he forgave him.
The consequences under the law was death. David wasn?t put to death. His sons died and his wives were raped publicly. How did David reap personally "the bitter consequences of his sin"?
Do Not Hope in Uncertain Riches
Paragraphs 15-17
David?s generous heart moved him to do all he could to promote pure worship.
From his personal fortune, he contributed 3,000 talents of gold and 7,000 talents of silver* $1,200,000,000 US.
Similarly, may we use our material assets to do good. Rather than pursuing a materialistic way of life, it is better to seek God?s approval.
Translation: Not enough JWs are giving their money to the WTS. Interestingly, the amount above almost equals the 951 million plus 200 million from the Furman Street building.
Present Yourself Approved to God
Paragraphs 18-19 "CARROT"
If we continue to rely on God?s spirit, we will be able to ?present ourselves approved to God? now and throughout eternity.

Concluding Comments
Be like ~~David~~ Jesus.
Speak up now, God uses humans to accomplish his will.
Don?t wait for a miracle.
The law was not applied in David?s case. Why not?
Who was punished, David or his family?
Be like Nathan, publicize the sins of the rulers.
Blondie
Odrade

Thanks Blondie! I love these shorty versions. All the juicy high points, they don't hurt my poor overworked student brain... haha.
Yeah, I always thought the example of David was a pretty poor example too. Nice story. "See kids? and that's how David was punished, he had to feel bad that he caused the death of tens of thousands. Poor man."
O
SuperMommy

I remember during my recent studies being told how other churches ask for money and the KH never does. This makes it so obvious that they want some cash. LOL
Oxnard Hamster

This is a king too that had a census taken even though he knew God had forbidden it and a good friend warned him.
I remember reading this when I used to read the Bible, but I never understood why such a seemingly harmless act was forbidden. Anyone care to "cast some new light" on the subject?
galaxy7

that always bothered me the fact everyone suffered but david.
Translation: Yes, if the elders/GB are wrong, don?t say anything and don?t sue them. Wait on Jehovah
Maybe thats what this article is really about,keeping your mouth shut
Similarly, may we use our material assets to do good. Rather than pursuing a materialistic way of life, it is better to seek God?s approval
Maybe we should throw all our money in the air and god can keep what he catches,in his own due time of course
Blondie, I love your watchtower reviews, the governing body should read them and learn the truth about the truth
Pistoff

Nice cut to the heart study, blondie. I am your biggest fan.
Why was David patient with Saul? Maybe he was so full of guilt over his rash actions his whole life that he let Saul slide; that sounds cynical I know but hey, that's how I see it. He was impulsive, violent and showed a pattern of breaking the law when it suited him. David would be disfellowshiped in a heartbeat in the modern day org; he committed adultery, covered it up and only admitted it when he was confronted. Open and shut; plus, he had the pattern of past behavior. Don't we all know a few elders who, if we took out David's name and recounted the sins, would give him the boot? It would be a no brainer for most elders. But instead the society keeps shoving David down our throats. WHY???
The society has always tried to make sense of David and hold up both his example and the bible record as making sense for christians. It is not possible. To accept this account as being evidence of God's support of David, we have to accept what Blondie already mentioned: God punished many innocents around David, and let him slide. He was the king, yes; but other kings were held to the sharp edge of the law, were they not? David only thought God was on his side; he was not afraid to use violence to get his way; people have a way of steering clear of such ones. Like most other accounts in the OT, every event was interpreted as being from God in some way. David's success at war no doubt affected how others, even those close to him, dealt with him.
David refused to harm Saul. Exercising faith and patience, he was content to leave matters in the hands of Jehovah.
Translation: Wait on Jehovah.
Though he knew that Saul was in the wrong, David did not avenge himself; neither did he speak abusively to Saul or about him. On several occasions, David restrained himself from taking matters into his own hands. Instead, he relied on Jehovah to set things straight.

Translation: Yes, if the elders/GB are wrong, don?t say anything and don?t sue them. Wait on Jehovah.

In any case, be assured that Jehovah sees your situation and will do something about it
In his own due time.
Here is why we keep hearing about David and not Jesus; Jesus SPOKE UP about corruption; Jesus, (our most important role model, right?) took matters into his own hands !! And he did not take the "brothers, I would like to submit that perhaps these things need attention." Jesus called the pharisees hypocrites to their face; he called them sons of Satan and children of snakes. He called them whitewashed graves; he said they made God's word useless due to their own customs. He told his followers that if they were not more righteous than the pharisees, they would never see the kingdom. Jesus' life and death is the seed for the truth that we do not need an organization in order to worship God; they only get in the way. They can do wonderful works, charities and all, (WT excluded, sadly) but they are not necessary if we want to worship like Jesus did.
Well, they can't have an organization full of people who talk so plainly, can they? If they did, how could they get away with belonging to the whore, the UN, for ten years? If all started imitating the courage of Jesus, they would call the WT on this (and suffer the consequences) and they would be humbled at Brooklyn. If they stopped being led like blind cattle, and were fearless for telling the truth like Jesus, they would tell Brooklyn that they KNEW the sex abuse scandal was true.
THAT is why we keep hearing about David. Oh and don't forget this: David committed every sin in the book during his life, and never once lost his privileges. That makes him BROOKLYN BETHEL'S POSTER BOY. (See? We are not so bad; look at David!! And God stood behind him!)
I am firmly in your camp, blondie; the more I hear about David, the more questions it puts into my head. I see his life at best as a wash; he did as much harm as good.
Leolaia

"Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God."?2 Timothy 2:15

Here we go with the New World Translation magically rendering a verse in a manner that perfectly comports with their salvation-by-works soteriology. You are not saved unless God "approves" of you by the way you conduct yourself (i.e. following all the WT talmudic rules). That is not how it is interpreted in the quoted article, but it can so easily be. The way the verse is rendered, it conveys a constant striving of oneself, hoping perhaps that in such attempts one might make oneself "approved" to God. Here is how the NASB interlinear translates the whole verse: "Be eager (spoudason) to present yourself approved (dokimon) as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth". Quite different. The JB also renders it: "Do all you can to present yourself in front of God as a man who has come through his trials, and a man who has no cause to be ashamed of his life's work and has kept a straight course with the message of truth". The sense is that of perseverence and strength, not seeking God's approval through striving in works. This rendering is based on the fact that dokimon "approved" commonly refers to testing through trial, cf.:
"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial (peirasmon), for once he has been approved (dokimos), he will receive the crown of life" (James 1:12).
"You have been distressed by various trials (peirasmois), that the trials (dokimos) of your faith, being more precious than gold that is perishable, even though tested (dokimazomenou) by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:7).
It may be hard to do the right thing, we may face trials if we stick to our principles, but in the end we have our integrity intact, there's no reason to feel "ashamed", and we can stand confident in front of God. Although the WTS wants to apply the verse to almost every area of Christian life, we can see that the immediate context in 2:14-24 only discusses the matter of philosophical discussions and religious controversies that might lead a Christian away form the "word of truth". The verse imho simply talks about keeping one's integrity intact, and not "give in to your impulses like a young man" (v. 22) to bicker and argue in "quarrels" (v. 24) but rather to "be kind to everyone, a good teacher, and patient" (v. 24). That's all.
Gopher

Back in the days of King David, people were adversely affected because he made one mistake after another. Actually they weren't mistakes, they were selfish acts.
But no matter, he was the king. And the Hebrew chronicles tell us that he was a man whose heart was acceptable to Jehovah. Never mind the consequences of his acts to the people who served him.
Today, people are adversely affected because the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses make one mistake after another. Actually they aren't mistakes, they're selfish acts.
However, they're the boss. And the Watchtower tells us that these leaders are acceptable to Jehovah. Never mind the consequences of their acts to the people who are in their organization.
blondie

Wow, good comments. I'll come back and let you know what I found outstanding about each of them (got a wedding to go to today).
But I will try to address the "census" issue. There was nothing wrong in taking a census because Moses and Solomon took censuses un God's direction. Here is the WTS explanation.
Insight Book-2 pp. 765-766 Registration ***
On David?s part, there may have been wrong motive due to pride and trust in the numbers of his army, hence a failing to manifest full reliance on Jehovah. In any case, it is clear that on this occasion David?s chief concern was not that of glorifying God.
Objected
to by Joab. When ordered to take the registration, David?s general Joab objected, saying, "May Jehovah your God even add to the people a hundred times as many as they are while the very eyes of my lord the king are seeing it. But as for my lord the king, why has he found delight in this thing?" (2Sa 24:3) Joab?s words imply that the national strength did not depend on numbers but on Jehovah, who could supply numbers if that was his will. Joab, at David?s insistence, took the census, but unwillingly, the report stating: "Levi and Benjamin he did not register in among them, because the king?s word had been detestable to Joab" (Levi not being counted, in accord with the law at Numbers 1:47-49). Joab either stopped before registering Benjamin or delayed the progress of the registration, and David came to his senses and called a halt to it before Joab had completed it. (1Ch 21:6) Joab may have avoided Benjamin because he did not want to stir up this tribe that was the tribe of Saul, which had fought David?s army under Joab before uniting with the other tribes under David. (2Sa 2:12-17) No doubt because the making of the count was wrong, it was not entered into "the account of the affairs of the days of King David."?1Ch 27:24.
And another source
Easton's Bible Dictionary:
" Besides the numbering of the tribes mentioned in the history of the wanderings in the wilderness, we have an account of a general census of the whole nation from Dan to Beersheba, which David gave directions to Joab to make (1Ch. 21:1). Joab very reluctantly began to carry out the king's command. This act of David in ordering a numbering of the people arose from pride and a self-glorifying spirit. It indicated a reliance on his part on an arm of flesh, an estimating of his power not by the divine favour but by the material resources of his kingdom. He thought of military achievement and of conquest, and forgot that he was God's vice-regent. In all this he sinned against God.
" While Joab was engaged in the census, David's heart smote him, and he became deeply conscious of his fault; and in profound humiliation he confessed, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done." The prophet Gad was sent to him to put before him three dreadful alternatives ( 2Sa 24:13 ; for "seven years" in this verse, the LXX. and 1Ch 21:12 have "three years"), three of Jehovah's four sore judgments ( Eze. 14:21 ). Two of these David had already experienced. He had fled for some months before Absalom, and had suffered three years' famine on account of the slaughter of the Gibeonites. In his "strait" David said, "Let me fall into the hands of the Lord."
"A pestilence broke out among the people, and in three days swept away 70,000. At David's intercession the plague was stayed, and at the threshing-floor of Araunah (q.v.), where the destroying angel was arrested in his progress, David erected an altar, and there offered up sacrifices to God ( 2Ch. 3:1 ).The census, so far as completed, showed that there were at least 1,300,000 fighting men in the kingdom, indicating at that time a population of about six or seven millions in all. "
Flash

The short version works for me...Cuts right to the chase. Although (with my Tums handy) the unabridged WT is very nice too. Either way, I appreciate your doing these Threads Blondie.
"Once again the WTS reaches back into the OT for a lesson to teach Christians."
Jesus freed peoples minds and taught them to THINK and QUESTION life and those who would lead them. That's not the agenda of the GB/Pharisees
We see impressive scientific and technological advances accompanied by a dramatic decline in moral values.
Science and technology are E-V-I-L!
one scholar wrote:
One of OUR people wrote...

Our talents, our achievements, and our privileges should never make us haughty.
"Translation: Don?t pursue music, sports, education, or anything else that will make you feel special."
True. Don't excell at anything or rise above the crowd.

"Do Not Avenge Yourselves"
David refused to harm Saul. Exercising faith and patience, he was content to leave matters in the hands of Jehovah.
Translation: Wait on Jehovah
This is why they didn't use Jesus as an example. He told it like it was publicly ("hypocrites and white washed graves") and went into the Temple and kicked butt!
Though he knew that Saul was in the wrong, David did not avenge himself; neither did he speak abusively to Saul or about him. On several occasions, David restrained himself from taking matters into his own hands. Instead, he relied on Jehovah to set things straight.
Translation: Yes, if the elders/GB are wrong, don?t say anything and don?t sue them. Wait on Jehovah.
Are they worried about being killed?? Thats what David declined to do!
In any case, be assured that Jehovah sees your situation and will do something about it
In his own due time.
How convieniant for them. To have to not have to face and deal with their errors and the just complaints of the congregation....And yes, Jehovah will do something about it since they won't correct themselves! Ezekiel 9:1,2,4,6 "...So they started with the old men that were before the house."
David?s generous heart moved him to do all he could to promote pure worship.
Translation: Not enough JWs are giving their money to the WTS.
LOL, You got that right!! hahaha
Concluding Comments
Be like ~~David~~ Jesus.
Speak up now, God uses humans to accomplish his will.
Don?t wait for a miracle.

Comments (abbreviated) You Will Not Hear at the 5-16-04 WT Study (4-1-04)

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