by gumby 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
In the 1000 year reign, aren't humans supposed to be perfect????? --exjdub
Aren't you ignoring the fact that "perfect" Adam himself sinned? Was he not "perfect" prior to his having fallen into sin? And what about Satan, wasn't he "perfect" before he began to do wrong things? Just because one is "perfect" doesn't make it impossible for the person to do wrong. People with a million years of life behind them CAN begin to practice badness. Satan is just such an example.
Just because one is "perfect" doesn't make it impossible for the person to do wrong. People with a million years of life behind them CAN begin to practice badness.
So, does this mean there could be some big rebellion in heaven some day? Is it possible Jesus could turn to the darkside......after all, he's not a spirit anyway(see doubting thomas story) Wow....."angels gone bad". That might make an intresting movie for Mel Gibson to do since he's on a roll now. I can see it now......the U.S. with all their mighty weapons, and all the other countries with their firecrackers, all teamed up against myriads of wayward sex crazed angels ready to pounce on mankind. I still think we could kick their asses.
Gumby
So, does this mean there could be some big rebellion in heaven some day?
There has already been a "big rebellion" in heaven, Gumbish; instigated by Satan, and which included all those angels who chose to side in with him. Insofar as any future rebellion, I suppose some individual angel might at some point become disgruntled with his lot in life and try to make trouble--but he won't be allowed to.
Is it possible Jesus could turn to the darkside....?
Not likely.
Tank you,
Kizm
gumby,
BibleGod simply likes to test and test and test people. He tosses roadblocks in their way, handicaps them, sets them up to be tempted (Satan is still supposedly around), and when they fail, he blames it on them and then kills them. God set up his own firstborn son to be tempted by sending him to earth, and even though his own son doesn't take the bait, God lets him get killed anyway. He kills us because we sin, then kills his own son to redeem us from sin and death, then kills us because we weren't really "redeemed" from sin and death 2,000 years ago. Then he kills everybody else on the planet and lets "us" clean up the mess on the planet for 1,000 years. Then he tosses another roadblock in the way: we get tempted again. The penalty for failure is of course, God kills us. After that God will only do random acts of killing for those who mess up now and then. Then God will get REALLY bored, and so he'll have to think up some other scheme to amuse himself at our expense.
Can you think of one sane human parent that would do such things for his/her own children?
Farkel
Gumbstrodamus
Gumbstrodamus
Don't you go startin that stuff too! Schizm, Angels won't be allowed to rebel again did you say? How come? Where do the scriptures indicate that? I only know of Satans punishment for bringing his gang to the evil side. Why couldn't it happen again? Farkmeister.......you tryin ta say gods nuttin but a cold blooded killer? Actually, not to many ...if any, have commented on the point I thought was intresting, and that was "sometime during the thousand years"....jesus "brings to nothing all governments, authorities, and rulerships". Governments, authorities, and rulerships"???? Who said the New System would get like that? Who influences ones to set up "authority, and rulerships"? Not Satan....he's locked up! We were ALWAYS taught that any who rebelled DURING the thousand year reign.....would quickly be snuffed out with no time to make trouble......yet jesus will have to bring to nothing all these rebellious authorities and rulerships. Another dub dilema they can't explain. Gumby
1 Timothy 2:4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. ("sorts of " isn't in the Greek and has been added by the WTBTS)
According to the WT only those with an accurate knowledge of truth (JWs) will be saved.
That is one of the scriptures that led Russell to believe that false religions are destroyed, (but not their followers), at armagedumb.
So the bad guys, (us), survive armagedumb and come to an accurate knowledge after.
There is more to the arguement, of course, I found it recently here http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/smcdownlds/chap09.html and Steve McRoberts online book "Falling in Truth" is a VERY interesting read http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/smcdownlds/DownLdFIT.html
So the bad guys, (us), survive armagedumb and come to an accurate knowledge after.
No according to witness beliefs. Bad guys don't make it period. Only witnesses make it through, not future converts. At least that's the way I remember it.
Gumby
gumby,
: Farkmeister.......you tryin ta say gods nuttin but a cold blooded killer?
Yep. The worst in human history. Besides all the other gore in the book that claims to represent him, why would he kill EVERY SINGLE firstborn son in Egypt because the Pharoah was such a selfish jerk? Why didn't he just give the Pharoah AIDS or the runs or something? What did those infant firstborn sons in the average Egyptian households do to deserve their brutal murder at the hand of God(tm)?
Yep. BibleGod(tm) is Hitler a million times over, and worse. He's got lotsa more killing plans in the future. He never gets tired of it.
Farkel
No according to witness beliefs. Bad guys don't make it period. Only witnesses make it through, not future converts. At least that's the way I remember it.
That's the Rutherford/WT spin on it, but That wasn't what Russell taught using scriptures like Rev 18:4 "And I heard another voice out of heaven say: "Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues."
Note that it only says they receive part of her plagues. The arguement being that the death of people in Babylon the Great would be sharing in ALL of her plagues, therefor they must survive into the millenium.
Likewise with 1 Timothy 2:4 "whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth."
Note that saved comes before "come to an accurate knowledge of truth" therefor the arguement that they come to an accurate knowledge after Armagedumb, during the millenium.
So, if this was 1914 The Troof would be teaching that us bad guys would survive Armagedumb to be taught The Troof in the millenium and that only after being taught The Troof we could possibly sin against Holy Spirit and pick up our subscription for the Second Death.
