by Daniel 67 Replies latest jw friends
Ah, the powerful argument from CAPITAL LETTERS. Perhaps you'll make a good JW after all?
Of course, if you weren't now in love with this girl, you would not consider joining the JWs. At least be honest enuff with yourself to admit that fact. If you lie to yourself, who will you ever be honest to?
- Jan
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Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]
Hey I'm new to this board, so please excuse me if I'm posting out of line. Danny boy, if you really want to be a JW, then knock yourself out, have a good time and all that garbage. You've gotten input from people here that have been through it all, take their advice or not it really doesn't matter to me.
However, I beleive that you aren't really looking to be a JW, I think you are a troll. You come in a stir shit up just to please yourself. If you are such a moron that you cannot find a KH in Houston then you honestly desrve to be a JW. Its seems that this (being a JW) is not really on your agenda.
To whom ever it was that posted about studing with the JWs to gain insight into you they really are; you are even a larger moron than Danny here. There you would experience even more of a bias than here.
Welcome to the board, godlike.
If you are such a moron that you cannot find a KH in Houston then you honestly desrve to be a JW.
LOL. I think I like you already
- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]
Okay, then. Prepare to not be on the internet anymore. They strongly discourage it. You might run into people like us here.
They WILL warn you about us, and how will you respond to that?
I remember your saying you wanted to give back to the Lord, or something like that. Go anywhere but to Jehovah's Witnesses.
You would find what you are looking for in any other religion.
Don't go to a cult!!
Check this out, Daniel: .. http://www.silentlambs.org
"but if it is right and true it is worth it"
Daniel,
I concur with your above statement.
If an organisation has proven itself to be Gods organisation on the earth, then it deserves respect.
You have to delve into past history to see whether the organisation has lived up to its claim of being Gods organisation.
Have past promises made by the organisation been fulfilled?
If the organisation claims to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class on Earth, then surely all pronouncements, rules and regulations from this organisation and printed in its literature will be right the first time, as they will be from God.
Are you still with me on this??
Using the above, ask yourself the following questions:
1) Am I allowed to accept vaccinations?
2) Am I allowed to receive a blood transfusion that will save my life?
3) Are blood fractions and components acceptable?
Before you answer these questions, please read the following which are quotations from Watchtower publications:
The Golden Age, Jan. 5, 1929; Feb. 4, 1931
“Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, eczema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome afflictions. Hence the practice of vaccination is a crime, an outrage and a delusion “
*** w50 3/1 79-80 Letter ***
Letter
FURTHER ON BLOOD TRANSFUSION
October 28, 1949
Whether by eating or drinking or transfusing blood, in all cases it is basically the transferring of blood from one organism human or animal to another organism, and this basic transfer of blood is what God’s Word condemns and forbids to his consecrated people. Just because a blood transfusion does not quench a person’s thirst or satisfy a person’s hunger is beside the point: the transfer of the blood remains an undeniable fact.
*** w61 9/15 557 Respect for the Sanctity of Blood ***
14 Disrespect for God’s law is so rampant that whole blood, blood plasma and blood fractions are used freely in numerous products that are sold for food.
*** w61 9/15 558 Respect for the Sanctity of Blood ***
16 Is God’s law violated by such medical use of blood? Is it wrong to sustain life by infusions of blood or plasma or red cells or the various blood fractions? Yes! The law that God gave to Noah and which applies to all his descendants makes it wrong for anyone to eat blood, that is, to use the blood of another creature to nourish or sustain one’s life. Even as Tertullian in his Apology showed how the early Christians reasoned on the matter, so today it is recognized that if this prohibition applies to animal blood, it applies with even more force to human blood. It includes “any blood at all.”—Lev. 3:17.
19 In view of the emphasis put on the use of blood in the medical world, new treatments involving its use are constantly being recommended .But regardless of whether it is whole blood or a blood fraction, whether it is blood taken from one’s own body or that taken from someone else, whether it is administered as a transfusion or as an injection, the divine law applies. God has not given man blood to use as he might use other substances; he requires respect for the sanctity of blood.
Awake!, July 8, 1969, p.30. The Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1961, p.564. The Watch
tower, Apr. 1, 1968, p. 210; Life Everlasting, p. 337 Dutch eds. my italics<O:P</O:P
36. Wolstenholme G.E.W. An old-established procedure: the development of blood transfusion. In Ethics in Medical Progress (Edited by Wolstenholme G.E.W. and O'Connor M.), p. 31. Churchill, London, 1966<O:P</O:P
Besides the perceived hazards for physical health, as emanating from the exploitation of the penurious urbanites, the Society was convinced that blood transfusion would incur mental contamination. So until the 70s the Society frequently defended its policy by arguing from the perspective of the humoural physiology. The following quote provides an example:
“Some say blood transfusions are harmless. Do you believe that? For 40 years K. was known as an honest man. Then he was given a blood transfusion after a fall. "I learned the donor was a thief" K. told police. "When I recovered I found I had a terrible desire to steal". And steal he did. He confessed to stealing ,10,000 in six robberies in three months. K. threatened to sue the doctor who arranged the transfusion, if he receives a severe sentence for his thievery.”
To stress the imaginary danger of contagion with less enviable psychological donor traits, in conformity with the biblical adage "the soul of the flesh is in the blood", the Society regularly quoted from a type of literature which in medical circles would probably be considered controversial. So, according to the book "Who Is Your Doctor and Why?": blood contains all the peculiarities of the individual from whence it comes. This includes hereditary taints, disease susceptibilities, poisons due to personal living, eating and drinking habits...The poisons that produce the impulse to commit suicide, murder, or steal are in the blood.”
In the same edition, a Brazilian medical journal was quoted, according to which: "Moral insanity, sexual perversions, repression, inferiority complexes, petty crimes - these often follow in the wake of blood transfusion". It is important to note how the Society stresses the perceived quality of blood through this negative characterization of the donor. If he is not a criminal, then at least there exists a social distance from the receiver. It is mentioned, for example, that Witnesses will try to protect their children from taking strange blood. And in spite of the fact that the donor may be a respectable member of the family, leading an immaculate life, the danger still looms. To make things worse, however, the donor usually is an unknown person, perhaps even a convict of a penitentiary or an alcoholic, as the Society reports (35). With even more horror the Society refers to the use of cadaver blood for transfusion purposes, a method in vogue in the Soviet Union during the thirties (36).
*** w84 5/15 30-1 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
Could a Christian accept a bone-marrow transplant, since blood is made in the marrow?
Doctors perform most bone-marrow transplants by withdrawing some marrow from a donor (often a near relative) and then injecting or transfusing it into the sick patient. They hope that the marrow graft will reach the patient’s marrow cavities and later function normally. Usually this procedure is considered only in critical cases (such as aplastic anemia or acute leukemia) for there are acknowledged hazards in preparing a person for a marrow graft and in treating him afterward.
As the question itself notes, red blood cells are formed in the marrow of certain bones such as the ribs, sternum and pelvic bones. Hence, it is understandable why, in the light of the Bible’s prohibition on blood, the question arises whether a Christian could accept a graft of human bone marrow.
The Bible states clearly that God’s servants must ‘abstain from blood.’ (Acts 15:28, 29; Deuteronomy 12:15, 16) But, since red cells originate in the red bone marrow, do the Scriptures class marrow with blood? No. In fact, animal marrow is spoken of like any other flesh that could be eaten. Isaiah 25:6 says that God will prepare for his people a banquet that includes “well-oiled dishes filled with marrow.” Normal slaughtering and drainage procedures never drain all blood cells from the marrow. Yet once a carcass is drained, then any of the tissue may be eaten, including the marrow.
Of course, marrow used in human marrow transplants is from live donors, and the withdrawn marrow may have some blood with it. Hence, the Christian would have to resolve for himself whether—to him—the bone-marrow graft would amount to simple flesh or would be unbled tissue. Additionally, since a marrow graft is a form of transplant, the Scriptural aspects of human organ transplants should be considered. See “Questions From Readers” in our issue of March 15, 1980. Finally, writing in Harrison’s Principles of Internal Medicine (Update I, 1981, page 138), Dr. D. E. Thomas observes that “virtually all marrow transplant recipients will require platelet transfusions” and many are given “packed red blood cells.” So the Christian should consider what additional issues he would have to face if he submitted to a marrow transplant.—Proverbs 22:3.
Though a personal decision has to be made on this matter, the Bible’s comments about blood and marrow should help the individual to decide.
How Can Blood Save Your Life? (1990)
*** hb 27 Jehovah's Witnesses-The Surgical/Ethical Challenge ***
While these verses are not stated in medical terms, Witnesses view them as ruling out transfusion of whole blood, packed RBCs, and plasma, as well as WBC and platelet administration. However, Witnesses’ religious understanding does not absolutely prohibit the use of components such as albumin, immune globulins, and hemophiliac preparations; each Witness must decide individually if he can accept these. 2
END OF QUOTATIONS
CONCLUSION:
18?? to 1949 - The Society ignored the “abstain from blood”
Why was the rule promulgated in 1945 and not earlier (since blood transfusion was already in use at the beginning of this century)?
1950 - it is basically the transferring of blood that is the key issue and all blood transfusions INCLUDING FRACTIONS AND COMPONENTS to be refused
1984 – Bone marrow transplants (producing red blood cells and containing red blood cells, are up to your conscience.
1990- Ruling out whole blood, packed red blood cells and plasma, as well as white blood cells and platelets. But now COMPONENTS, such albumin, immune globulins (which contain antibodies extracted from the blood of another person) and haemophiliac preparations are now up to your conscience.
Daniel,
If you were living in the 1920's you would have refused a vaccinations, based on the WT teachings. The chances are you would severely ill, disabled, and possibly die from the illnesses.
If you were in the same situation now, you would quite happily accept a vaccination, and you would live. Have the WT changed their thinking? Have people suffered as a result of following the WT teaching?
If you needed a bone marrow transplant in the 1950-70's: you would have refused, on the basis that the WT said that all blood, fractions components, red blood cells are forbidden. You would have died.
If you needed a bone marrow transplant in the 1980's- you could accept if your conscience allowed.
However, at the moment you are not allowed to receive certain components of blood and not others. People are dying because of accepting this and refusing life saving treatment.
I know this - my daughter was in this situation.
Will you be making decisions based on the WT regulations, and ruin your life as a result. Because those WT regulations will probably change in the future (see history for proof of change in regulations).
Daniel,
Please think carefully about this. It does affect your life and the choices that you make.
I just don't want someone else making the same mistakes that i made and go through the mental anguish that I went through.
Regards
Enlighted UK
Enjoy your life, it is the only one you'll have.
Daniel,
You asked for a reply from a current JW? Here it is.
I am currently know as a Jehovah's Witness. I was baptized three months ago, and have studied for over a year. I once thought exactly like you do. I was told that these people are evil, and have empty accusations. Therefore I disregarded their advice. I chose to be baptized and become part of the most loving organization on earth. Everything was ok until about 6 weeks ago. I was supposed to stand up in my sister's wedding. The elder that I was studying with knew about this for over a year. He said....long before I was baptized that it would be alright to be in the ceremony. The week before the ceremony, I was pulled aside and told that it would no longer be considered accectable to be in the wedding. I disregarded that advice of the congregation and stood up for my sister. This was a sign of spiritual weakness, I was told. Considering the fact they lied to me just so I would get baptized, I decided to see exactly what else they had lied to me about. Here are some of the things I have been researching for the last 6 weeks.
Just so you are aware, not all of my research has been done on apostate sites. I have found numerous amounts of information from history books, encyclopedias...etc.
1914 teaching.....fall of Jerusalem in 607.
Biblical appropriateness of 2520 yr. prophecy
Disfellowshipping.....odd cases
Hellfire
Trinity
New World Translation.....Accuracy
JW's are the only christians...are they christians?
Confessing sins to elders
Baptism......why to org.?Why not in the name of the fater, son, and holy spirit?
Christ...my personal mediator...or only mediator for anointed class?
Biblical understanding is not for the individual?
Paradise Earth?
only 144,000 go to heaven?
False Prophecy
Blood?
These are just a few things. The WT arguments seem very strong and true. If you research them for yourself, you will see they are fallable, though. I am not telling you what to do. These issues may seem insignificant, but please do your own research. I am a 21 year old male....I am probably not very wise, but I know when something is wrong.
Do I regret being in the WT? Part of me says no....because I now know what they are like. I have no unanswered questions about them. But the spiritual side of me totally regrets it because of:
Revelation 4:11 "you are worthy, our Lord to recieve glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."
God created me and gave me life. He deserves the best worship I can give him. I feel I was not doing that in the WT. There are many other verses I could use, but I am trying to keep this post short.
I am new here...so I am sorry to all of you for such a long post, or if I was out of line in any way.
Christian Love....open_mind
Open_mind, you are fabulous! Great post!
Princess
"...and they lived happily ever after."
think its very nice her parents have accepted you to be part of their family in spite of you not being spiritually mature enough yet
(eg, baptised and in good standing), guess they must be getting more liberal these days, think you'll be happier over at www.witnessesonline.com once theyre back up and running, I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms and tell you all you want to hear
over there,(jw site) you can see with your own eyes that what is said
over on www.jw-media.com and www.watchtower.org (both official sites)
is true and that shunning has no affect on families.What would we know
we're just a product of their making.
think you'll make an excellent jw you're just what theyre looking for
nelly
Great elder material.
two years top
<sigh>
woe starting to think more now.......still will go but i will keep this in mind.
