Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • kes152
    kes152

    Michael CRITICIZED Satan, he REPRIMANDED in that sentence. He "checked and repressed" Satan's conduct of the Moses body incident.

    Re-read that sentence.

    All he said was "The Lord rebuke thee." If you look up CRITICIZE you will see it means:

    "to censure or find fault with. to JUDGE or or DISCUSS the merits and faults of. "

    So please find where Michael "judged" and "discussed" so as to find fault with, by him ONLY saying "the Lord rebuke thee." This one sentence does NOT do all that. As you can see more is required. Not only that but Michael did not judge, but "comitted" all the judging to the One that DOES judge. and it is THIS Judge that will and does rebuke Satan.

    Peace,
    Aaron

  • tracysdad
    tracysdad

    Thanks everyone!

    Kes, if Michael is the "Angel of the LORD," then He is Jesus because in Romans Paul said that the "rock" that followed the Israelites out of Egypt was Christ. Reference later...
    To Moses, this "Angel" who is appearing at the bush says He is God. Can the created angel Michael go around representing God & recieve worship? Isn't the worship of angels forbidden? What gives?
    I've gotta go-peace to you all.

  • kes152
    kes152

    Greetings tracysdad!

    "Paul said that the "rock" that followed the Israelites out of Egypt was Christ. Reference later... "

    Is this the reference?

    "and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ. "

    1 Corinthians 10:4

    In Exodus 23:20-23 the angel, Michael went before and led the sons of Israel and Christ was the "rock" that followed the sons of Israel. Hence, Michael was in front, Jesus was behind. Michael is the prince of Israel, and Jesus is the "heir" of Israel. That is why Jesus said:

    "NO ONE stands strongly WITH ME in these things except Mi'chael, the prince of YOU people."

    Daniel 10:21

    Only Michael and Jesus are strongly involved with Israel. Michael is 'guardian' of the 'ark,' hence "arkangel." Jesus is the propitiatory 'cover' or "mercy seat" of which Michael SITS ON and covers so as to PROTECT.

    Exodus 25:17-22
    Hebrews 9:5
    1 John 2:2

    To Moses, this "Angel" who is appearing at the bush says He is God. Can the created angel Michael go around representing God & recieve worship?

    Umm... not quite. Michael.. when speaking to Moses only spoke what Michael heard. God spoke to his Word, and the word spoke to Michael the words of the Father. Michael spoke EXACTLY what he heard through holy spirit word-for-word. Michael never mentioned himself at all. He was the 'mouth' of God doing abosolutely nothing but "speaking the EXACT words" he heard, as he heard them. Any responses Moses made to him, God spoke for the angel and the angel repeated. When Israel worshipped, they worshipped God. Angels were used only as an 'appearance' so that Israel would see that the worship was accepted. They did not "represent" God.. they were a visible 'confirmation' FROM God that the sons of Israel had done well.

    May you have peace!
    Aaron

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Aaron,

    May the Lord rebuke you!

    Your words have just been checked by MY rebuke to YOU.

    >>to censure or find fault with<<

    Michael did just that...checked, censured and found fault with Satan's request. PS, a word does not have to involve every defintion of the word to hold it's meaning, meaning the "judging" definition you have dragged in as a red herring argument Basic Enlish grammar here. NOT Greek or Hebrew.

    So it is Michael rebuking/checking/reproving/criticising Satan word's regarding Satan's dispute over Moses body. Period.

    The End.

    PS. tracysdad, there were obviously two spiritual entities at the burning bush with Moses. The angel was seen, but it was the LORD that was heard. The angel keeping the bush burning WAS NOT THE ONE SPEAKING. Obviously...as God is NOT an angel.

  • tracysdad
    tracysdad

    kes,
    Yes, that was it.
    I've got a few questions in response but I'll have to get back on Monday night. Until then, I thank you all for trying to help me understand this. Peace to you!

  • kes152
    kes152

    Hey Pomegrante:

    you said:

    "May the Lord rebuke you!"

    And if it HIS will.. he will rebuke me.

    you also said:

    Your words have just been checked by MY rebuke to YOU.

    LOL, even IF you rebuked me.. why would you say "May the Lord rebuke you?" Unless you are the Lord. If you are not the Lord then, you SHOULD have SAID:

    "May the Lord and I rebuke you!"

    This would have made more sense, because you said:

    Your words have just been checked by MY rebuke to YOU.

    But, because you said:

    "May the Lord rebuke you!"

    You have CEASED from speaking to me and have TURNED ME OVER to the Lord. You did this so that THE LORD can rebuke me. Now, if the Lord chooses NOT to rebuke me.. then your "turning me over" attained to no value, because the Lord denied YOUR REQUEST for him to rebuke me.

    Understand now?

    Still wishing you peace!
    Aaron

  • kes152
    kes152

    tracysdad

    I look forward to it, and may peace be INCREASED to you!

    Aaron

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    You know, it's people like you that make things that are so very very simple and easy into a really ridiculous mess, all because their pride won't let them be reproved.

    So, Aaron's English grammar is, if the word rebuke is in a sentence from the first person, being spoken to the second person, the first person isn't rebuking the second person.

    So Mr. Aaron, what exactly were Michael's words to Satan's ridiculous request? All your answers rebutt mine without saying exactly what Michael's words are termed...please define and term them with one word, without using any words of admonishment. Because if you do, you admit to them being a rebuke, which is a sharp admonishment. Make sure you keep the context intact with your defintion, which is two spirit creatures sparring and at odds with each other. DISPUTING is the exact Biblical word.

    Synonyms? Ever heard of them?

    syn·o·nym (noun)

    1. A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language.

    Here more from college word resources:

    Synonyms: admonish, reprove, rebuke, reprimand, reproach

    These verbs mean to correct or caution critically. Admonish implies the giving of advice or a warning in order to rectify or avoid something: “A gallows erected on an eminence admonished the offenders of the fate that awaited them” (William Hickling Prescott). Reprove usually suggests gentle criticism and constructive intent: With a quick look, the teacher reproved the child for whispering in class. Rebuke and reprimand both refer to sharp, often angry criticism: “Some of the most heated criticism... has come from the Justice Department, which rarely rebukes other agencies in public” (Howard Kurtz). “A committee at [the university] asked its president to reprimand a scientist who tested gene-altered bacteria on trees” (New York Times). Reproach usually refers to regretful or unhappy criticism arising from a sense of disappointment: “Every other author may aspire to praise; the lexicographer can only hope to escape reproach” (Samuel Johnson).

    You can be sure that during the dispute, Michael's words were said SHARPLY and with a bit of righteous ANGER in response to Satan's corrupted request.

  • kes152
    kes152

    Greetings pomegranate,

    May you have peace!

    you said:

    So Mr. Aaron, what exactly were Michael's words to Satan's ridiculous request?

    All your answers rebutt mine without saying exactly what Michael's words are termed...

    please define and term them with one word, without using any words of admonishment.

    No problem! Michael ... by saying "May the Lord rebuke you" was SURRENDERING Satan to the Lord. Michael, by saying this ... handed Satan over to the AUTHORITY of the Lord so that the Lord would rebuke him.

    The definition for 'surrender' is as follows:

    (1.)to YIELD (something) to the possession or POWER of ANOTHER, (2.)deliver up something on demand or under duress.. etc.

    One can 'surrender' his soul to the authority of another, one can 'surrender' his child to the authority of another, during a DISPUTE I can 'surrender' my opponent to my Lord (and perhaps he may rebuke my opponent), etc.

    Peace to you,
    Aaron

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    surrendering??

    LOL...

    Read your definition. Michael neither submitted HIS own power or was HE under any duress to give up on anything.

    Surrendering is done by the weaker and the loser, often times in reference to a war/battle or DISPUTE. Are you saying Michael was the weaker and the loser under this particular dispute with Satan and had to submit to him? I don't think so. Michael would never "surrender" ANYTHING according to Revelation:

    Rev 12:7-9
    7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough <Satan>, and they <Satan and his demons>lost their place in heaven.

    Seems MICHAEL didn't "surrender" here on this highly important dispute eh? Matter of fact, seems the LORD gave MICHAEL the green light to whoop his butt in heavenly WAR. This incident in Revelation goes WAY BEYOND a verbal rebuke, which a verbal rebuke MICHAEL gave Satan as recorded in Jude.

    Revelation shows MICHAEL going WAY BEYOND a verbal rebuke. Revelation shows God giving MICHAEL the OK to get "physical" with Satan. That goes BEYOND REBUKING WORDS my friend.

    There is only one thing that Michael CANNOT do to Satan. ONLY ONE THING.

    EXECUTE HIM. (May the LORD rebuke you)

    When it's time for God to "rebuke" Satan, his lights are going out.

    Up to that time, God as given Michael full authority to not only verbally rebuke Satan, but to clean house of the filth mongers from the heavens.

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