Is Michael the Angel of the Lord? (page 3)

tracysdad

kes152, would you please check out the web address www.aristotle.net/~bhuie/christot.htm. This guy seems to connect The Angel of the LORD(Jesus Christ) with Michael the Archangel. I looked up almost all of his references & He seems to make a legitimate argument. It's a pretty lengthy paper, but I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

kes152

My dear, dear, DEAR pomegranate:

you said:

"Read your definition. "

I did.

you said:

"Michael neither submitted HIS own power or was HE under any duress to give up on anything. "

I didn't say that either. Perhaps this time you should READ MY POST and really pay attention to the WORDS I SAID as opposed to the words you THOUGHT I said.

I wrote ... very clearly and very legibly that Michael SURRENDERED Satan to the Lord. I did NOT say Michael surrendered HIS own power nor did I say Michael was "under duress to give up on anything."

Pay attention this time. If you read the dictionary like you read my posts.. no doubt you've mis-quoted the dictionary also. For you CLEARLY mis-rebutted my post. Please keep in mind.. that "surrender" does not only mean "to give up." Read ALL the definitions.

Peace to you!
Aaron

kes152

Hey tracysdad

The URL was not found. When you find it, do you want me to explain it all here, or would you prefer for me to email it to you?

If you rather e-mail ... just email me your address at [email protected] and I will reply to you.

Peace to you!
Aaron

pomegranate

Michael did not have or own or posess Satan to surrender him over. Surrender is not there in the context either. It was a dispute between two with a final rebuke from one to the other.

The Lord's rebuke shall mean death to Satan.

No comment on Revelation eh?

kes152

pomegranate,

lol, Michael did not have to "own or possess" Satan in order to "surrender him over."

you know that say... you adversary at law does not need to 'own' you or 'possess' you in order to surrender you to the Judge. Or Paul did not need to 'own' or 'possess' Hymenaeus or Alexander to "surrender" them to Satan. Remember the definition of 'surrender?'

1 Timothy 1:20
Matthew 5:25

"to YIELD (something) to the possession or POWER of ANOTHER,"

Notice the definition does not say you HAVE to OWN it first. Anything that is yielded to the OWNERSHIP of ANOTHER is a "surrender."

"No comment on Revelation eh?"

Revelation was not the topic... the phrase in Jude 9 was the topic, namely ... Did Michael "rebuke" by saying "May the Lord rebuke you?" Now UNLESS you see that "phrase" again in Revelation... there is NO need for me to comment on it.

Peace to you!
Aaron

tracysdad

kes152, I emailed that paper to you. It's condensed & not in the format of the site itself, so I hope it's not tough reading.
shalom to you~

pomegranate

The point of bringing in Revelation is that the ONLY time Michael would "surrender" Satan over to the LORD would be for the final "rebuking" from God which will be Satan's death. That final rebuking did not happen in Jude, nor did it happen in Revelation where Michael went BEYOND rebuking verbage and was able to punish Satan himself with Godly permission by WARRING with him in heaven and ousting him.

Michael verbally bashed Satan in Jude, and "physically" trashed him in Revelation out of the heavens. So...explain this "surrender"...(of which the context does NOT support)

Tell me, what was God going to say to Satan as a verbal rebuke if that is your logic? You bad boy Satan?

Satan knew exactly what those words of rebuke from Michael's mouth meant. It was not I surrender you over as you mention other texts which state "surrender" exactly. This text does NOT say surrender AT ALL...Satan knew those words from Michael to mean his final extermination from God. That WAS a verbal rebuke from Michael reminding Satan of the great final rebuke that was to be from God. The LORD's ONLY verbal rebuke to Satan was stated at the very beginning, with God cursing Satan, and predestining him to death.(Gen 3:15)

There is nothing else God needs to say to Satan is there??...except "the memory of you shall be forgotten."

Lights Out.

bah bye.

tracysdad

Easy now...

I wish I could comment on this but I'm too broke to buy a clue. :)

kes152

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

Tracysdad,

Peace to YOU!
Aaron

kes152

Michael verbally bashed Satan in Jude, and "physically" trashed him in Revelation out of the heavens. So...explain this "surrender"...(of which the context does NOT support)

First... nothing "physical" ever happens in the heavens. "Physical" things are only in the "physical" realm. Everything done in the SPIRIT REALM are done spiritually. Not "symbolically" or "metaphorically" but 'spiritually.'

Second... Michael had a 'dispute' with the Adversary regarding Moses body. Rather than Michael bring a judgement against him in ABUSIVE TERMS (altohugh your stating he verbally "bashed" him; which Jude did NOT say) he SURRENDERED Satan to the authority of the Lord by saying, " May the LORD rebuke you."

After Michael SURRENDERED Satan to the AUTHORITY of the Lord, the Lord then told Michael to war and remove Satan from his place. Michael 'heard' and obeyed. None of what Michael did was from "Michael".. Michael let all that orginate from the Lord and Michael just 'obeyed as he heard.' Michael would not bring judgement against him, he surrendered that 'decision' to the Lord.

Peace to you,
Aaron

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

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