ANOINTING - How JWs really know!

by Amazing 63 Replies latest jw friends

You Know

The anointing by the holy spirit is the most awesome and marvelous thing that God has ever done. Jehovah was certainly not obligated to call even one insignificant little imperfect human into his realm and into his presence. That he would not only do that, but grant them the privilege of immortality and of ruling as kings is beyond human comprehension. The Devil's first lie was, besides his direct lie that disobedience would not result in death, was that God was holding something back from man. Satan implied that Jehovah didn't really trust humans and that Jehovah himself couldn't be trusted. In the light of that blasphemous slander, Jehovah's purpose to turn the rulership of his universe over to a bunch of reformed sinners is the most humiliating thing that Jehovah could possibly have done to Satan. The Devil apparently had ambitions to sit on God's throne and sought to usurp God with his cunning. God has throughly turned the tables on the demons by recruiting the dregs of humanity, and elevating them to a glory that not even the angels possess. So while the individuals who are called to that hope of themselves are not special, the calling is special.
So from the very beginning of the anointing, the demons have been keenly interested in resisting and perverting Jehovah's purpose. As one way to belittle the calling, through their apostate man of lawlessness the demons have long promoted the idea that all Christians are going to heaven to trample God's courtyards. The Bible though explains that it does not depend upon the one wishing, but rather it depends upon God's calling of an individual. Clearly God is very selective, even as Christ said that 'many are called but few are chosen.'
In the modern era of the restoration of primitive Christianity, the demons have obviously once again sought to insinuate themselves into the organization by pushing the idea that all Christians are anointed. The apostasy of one Ray Franz promoted that demonic doctrine. The demons apparently are also able to over reach some individuals in the organization to the extent of deluding them with a false sense that they too are anointed. My personal observations over the years has been that ones relatively new in the truth that are overcome with the idea of being anointed have all eventually left the truth, or had major phsycological problems. Thus the Devils game is to create confusion and dissension. The Watchtower has countered that demonic influence by reinforcing the uniqueness of the calling and creating an atmosphere within the organization that discourages new partakers.
The downside of that is that genuine newly anointed ones are also generally viewed with suspicion and distrust. But, that also serves God's purpose as well. Jesus was also rejected and viewed as a fraud and deceiver. So, in the body of Christ, some members suffer this, and others suffer that, so that within the totality of the body they fill up the full measure of the sufferings of the Christ as Paul said. Thus many of the older anointed ones went through various trials during the war years and in their confrontations with clergy and others. We don't face much of that now. The older anointed generally enjoyed the esteem of the brothers in the organization at least. Newly anointed ones though experience the contrast that Paul noted that existed even back then, namely, that some anointed are discreet in Christ, but others are looked upon as fools. Today the older anointed are strong, but we are weak, or at least viewed that way. In some sense, as Paul chided the Corinthians, some anointed live as if they have already begun ruling as kings. They 'are in good repute, but others are in dishonor.' (See 1 Corinthians 4:8-10) Also, Christ's parable of the master of the vineyard illustrates well how those who were hired early in the day, such as those anointed back in the 1919 period, would resent those who are hired at the last hour and yet receive the same wage. So Jesus foretold the schism that would exist between the older anointed ones and the newer ones.
But as for the anointing itself, John wrote as regards the anointing: "you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true, and is no lie..." So, there is no reason that anyone should need to consult a Watchtower magazine or anyone else to find out if they are anointed. Jehovah is the Great Communicator. He knows every language of man and angels. He can easily communicate via his spirit with anyone whom he calls and choses to participate in the heavenly calling. Each of those whom God communicates with know it. But that doesn't mean that a person can't lose their anointing. Obviously many have been unfaithful. / You Know
Amazing

Hi You Know: I enjoyed your post. Generally, your comments about the Anointed among the JWs and the Watch Tower theological theory is is within what I understood as a JW. I well understood that theory and for many years accepted it as truth.
You noted in your conclusion,
But as for the anointing itself, John wrote as regards the anointing: "you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true, and is no lie..." So, there is no reason that anyone should need to consult a Watchtower magazine or anyone else to find out if they are anointed.
I agree with you on this 100%. And the verse you quoted is one of my favorites on this, and was one of THE verses that actually clarified my views as a JW anointed, and thus I was not driven the same way to consult Watch Tower poublications. Most of my research was done at the beginning of my JW career, and became less as I grew in understanding of the Society's theological interpretations.
You continued,
Jehovah is the Great Communicator. He knows every language of man and angels. He can easily communicate via his spirit with anyone whom he calls and choses to participate in the heavenly calling. Each of those whom God communicates with know it.
I have no dispute with your premise here. This is as it should be. The question is, do humans embellish or coem to interpret something as from God when in fact it is their own fantasy and wishful thinking. Given that the Society of Jehovah's Witnesses are a proven fraud and serious deviant from the basic Christian faith, I cannot help but believe that much of what JWs think is from God is none other than their own interpretive views. I do not mean to belittle JWs with this, because this is equally true of other Christian groups as well. It is a very human behavior to attribute meaning and assign Divine manipulation to events on this planet. It is part of our ancient tribal ways.
You continued,
But that doesn't mean that a person can't lose their anointing. Obviously many have been unfaithful.
The Watch Tower Society has directly stated that once Anointed, you are Anointed forever. What you lose if you die 'unfaithful' is the reward and benefit of the fulfillment of what Anointing would bring, such as heavenly life, ruling with Christ, etc. So, a replacement to fill a vacancy in the full number of 144,000 is then required. My comment about not losing the Anointing was in reference to this aspect, because some JWs of the OS have the belief that a person can get 'busted' down in rank from being of the Anointed to one of the OS. This is simply not true or in line with Watch Tower theological beliefs and interpretations.
The reason that I now believe that all Christians are Anointed is that I have shifted my views from a "class" system with organizational rankings to that of merely diiscribing various features and characteristics of the Christian faith. We are all equal and none have an advantage over another.
As for the Devil's supposed lie that all Christians will go to heaven, there is not one word in the Bible that remotely discusses this specific issue in this fashion. This is purely Watch Tower conjecture and speculation. God granting everlasting life to those who are saved by his Son Jesus Christ is really good enough. All the rest of the layers of religious debates, theological constructions are really little more than human attempts to try and know more than what God has revealed. All religions have failed in this regard, among which the Jehovah's Witness religion has become a leader in promulgating fraudulant ideology designed to extol and promote men and organization above concern for truth and for people.
Jesus Christ, on the other hand was one to strip away the religious layers of human invention and tradition, and show real concern for people and truth, common sense, and heartfelt love for common people. It is Jesus Christ who has kept me from losing my faith in God. - Amazing
You Know

Given that the Society of Jehovah's Witnesses are a proven fraud and serious deviant from the basic Christian faith

The "proven fraud" is in your own deluded thinking. You have merely experienced shipwreck of your faith and been ensnared in apostasy.
The reason that I now believe that all Christians are Anointed is that I have shifted my views from a "class" system with organizational rankings to that of merely diiscribing various features and characteristics of the Christian faith. We are all equal and none have an advantage over another.
That sort of reasoning is the basis for the entire apostate movement. Paul clearly stated that at an appointed time God's purpose is to gather all things together in Christ, the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth. The heavenly things that are referenced has to do with those who become enrolled as citizens of the heavens. They are spoken of as making up a class of priests. So, all things are not equal. Jehovah's anointed ones serve as priests to those who are to be gathered as earthly servants. Satan's efforts through his apostate agents are directed at discrediting the faithful slave who has been placed in charge over those of God's household.
As for the Devil's supposed lie that all Christians will go to heaven, there is not one word in the Bible that remotely discusses this specific issue in this fashion.
Nonsense. Jesus gave the illustration of the wheat and the weeds and specifically said that the Devil sows the weeds. The weeds are the multitudes of deluded nominal Christians that pretend to be hiers of God's kingdom. Jesus in fact gave numerous illustrations pointing out how he will reject many who knock on heaven's door, so-to-speak, imagining that they were somehow invited.
It is Jesus Christ who has kept me from losing my faith in God.
You are lost in darkness but you just don't know it---yet. / You Know
Amazing

Hi You Know: I well remember and understand the theological premise and beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness religion.
You comment about shipwreck of faith could and was just as easily stated to me by my Parish Priest before I became a JW. He said that there are problems with the One True, Holy Roman Catholci Church, but I should wait on Jesus Christ to correct the errors, and not be stumbled by men, but stay true and faithful to the One True Church, the Catholic Church.
The JWs countered that argument with concern for Truth and willingness to take a stand for what is right over and above claims of men.
Therefore, I find it interesting that upon my departure from the Jehovah's Witness religion after 25 years with it, that JWs use the same identical Catholic argumentation against me as was used by my Parrish Priest in 1969.
You Know, I have NOT apostacized against Jesus Christ. I have merely rejected the Watch Tower religion aka Jehovah's Witnesses much for the same reasons I rejected the Roman Catholic Church, a Church that has all historical claims and rights to being the FIRSt Christian organization, the keepers of ancient manuscripts, and the very religion that determined what is Canonical and not Canonical that is still accepted by Protestant denominations including the Jehovah's Witness religion.
The only exception are parts of 6 books that is not in the King James version. The King James version was developed by scholars associated with the Angelican Church of England. The Jehovah's Witness religion accepts this version as Holy and Inspired. They have merely published their own English version and then modified it to conform to their own religious dogma. The JW translators are no different that when Joseph Smith retranslated the King James Bible to conform to Mormon theology.
The Watch Tower religion is a proven fruad over and over again with clear and irrefutable facts. False prophecy, flip-flop theological positions, wholesale abandomnment of traditional Christian teachings that are now gradually moving back again to traditional Christian beliefs. They cannot be any kind of true religion.
This emotional and psychological label called 'apoostate' that the leadership of the Watch Tower uses to keep JWs from getting truthful information is just that, a cultish piece of psycho-babble because they are control freaks.
The average JW is a good person who has been duped. Many people of other organized religions have been duped as well to varying degrees, some worse and many not as bad as the JWs.
For me, my faith in Christ and God is outside the operations of organized religion. This is the safe and better way to grow spiritually and not be chained down by the traditions of men, including, but not limited to the silly restraints imposed by the ideas, notions, and fantasy of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. - Amazing
You Know

The Watch Tower religion is a proven fruad over and over again with clear and irrefutable facts. False prophecy, flip-flop theological positions, wholesale abandomnment of traditional Christian teachings that are now gradually moving back again to traditional Christian beliefs. They cannot be any kind of true religion.

You spout the Franzian apostate dogma like a Witness giving a rehearsed presentation at the door. Your conclusions are entirely the result of your busted faith. The fact that you are wrestling with such infantile issues as whether God exists or not, or that if he does exist he used evolution, proves how totally spiritually bankrupt and utterly blind that you are. You are in no position to be delving into deep and difficult secrets of God. Peter noted that the untaught and unsteady twist the Scriptures to their own destruction.
For me, my faith in Christ and God is outside the operations of organized religion.
That means that you are also on the outside of God's spiritual organization and really have no faith at all. Oh, you might believe that Jesus existed, but mere belief is not the same as having true faith. Jesus warned his disciples that they were mere brancehes on a vine, and that they must stay connected to him in order to be successful. It is so fundamental so as to be self-evident, that Jesus gathers all of his sheep into a brotherhood, a world-wide brotherhood; an organization of disciples. They are connected, not only to Christ, but also to each other. Paul said that the anointed were 'members belonging to each other.' Anyone who imagines that they have an anointing from God apart from his organization is simply deluding themselves, and perhaps a few others who may be taken in by their claims.
/ You Know
Amazing

Hi You KNow: You said,
You spout the Franzian apostate dogma like a Witness giving a rehearsed presentation at the door.
Okay, then, forget Ray Franz and other similar ex-JWs who have exposed the fraud of the Watch Tower religion. Instead, go to your own publications, such as the ones I cited in my new post about whether the JW religion is a proven fraud, and meet the challenge I make there. If you can make an honest discussion that proves me in error, then I will think about returning to the JW religion.
Amazing
You Know

I responded briefly. I am now catching a plane and will be gone for a while, so please don't misconstrue my non-response. / You Know
reagan_oconnor

Thank you, Amazing... I'm printing off to take home to read tonight Homework! <g>
Cheers,
Reagan
"I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul."
Dogpatch

The following has been the doctrine of most of the Protestant sects for hundreds of years, and the Witnesses seem to be so ignorant of it.
Don't let any man take it away from you, or scare you with frightening words. Their vituperance is their trademark, and fear and guilt the name of their game.
Why All Christians Go To Heaven

by Randall Watters
While Jesus was still with his disciples on earth, He spoke to them about heavenly life:
Let not your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In my Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. (John 14:1-3)
Maybe you are saying, "I don't have the desire to go to heaven. I would rather live on a cleansed earth." Did you know that the apostles felt this way as well, at least before Pentecost? The Bible doesn't indicate their desire to be in heaven up until then. Often they did desire the prestige of the kingdom that Jesus spoke about, such as when the mother of James and John asked for them to sit at Jesus' right and left hand in the kingdom (Matt. 20:21). But the disciples continually visualized a conventional earthly kingdom of some sort, and felt that it would be realized back then. Luke 19:11 relates:
And while they were listening to these things, He went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.
Even after Jesus' death and resurrection they held onto this idea, and Acts 1:6 says:
And so when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
Only years later do we find the apostle speaking from the heart about their hope in the heavens. Notice the following expressions:
...And raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus... -Eph. 2:6
The Lord will deliver me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. -II Tim. 4:18
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession. -Heb. 3:1
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. -Phil. 3:20
...Because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel. -Col. 1:5
...To obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you. -I Peter 1:4
Did God give these disciples of Jesus a supernatural desire to go to heaven rather than to live on earth, as the Watchtower teaches? No such miraculous desire is indicated in the Bible. Rather, their desire was simply based upon wanting to be with Jesus again, wherever He was. Rev. 14:4 says that "These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes." They had come to know and love Jesus dearly, and simply wanted to be with Him. If He was going to heaven, they wanted to be there with Him.
When Stephen was stoned, he knew that he was going to be with the Lord. He saw Him seated at the right hand of the throne of God in heaven in a vision and prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" (Acts 7:59).
In John 14:1-3 Jesus likens their going to heaven as "coming home" to be with Him and the Father. In 2 Cor. 5:6-9 the apostle Paul refers to his "going home to be with the Lord."
Simply stated, a true Christian desires to go to heaven because he has been cultivating a loving relationship with Jesus Christ, and he not only wants to be with Him some day, and treasures such a promise, but is appalled at the thought of missing out on such a promise.
Having such a desire is based upon a personal relationship, and not on a preference for physical surroundings, as the Watchtower suggests. For instance: A young man in California falls in love with a beautiful young girl and wants to marry her. Then she moves to New York. Although the young man is quite comfortable in California and does not know what to expect in New York, his desire is to be with the one he loves. He doesn't go out of love for New York, for he knows nothing about the place.
So it is with the one who truly belongs to Christ. He does not know anything about heaven or what to expect there, nor does any man. But he knows his Lord, and he wants to be with Him. This is precisely why Jesus promised what He did in John 14:1-3 (quoted earlier).
So what if we have no desire to go to heaven? Obviously we have been feeding on the wrong spiritual food. Instead of feeding on the Word of life and the promises given to us by Jesus, we may have been feeding on the doctrines of men who endeavor to steal the promises of God away from us. Gal. 1:6-7 warns us:
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
What should we then do? Well, just as a woman should know her head (her husband), so we must also know our head, Jesus Christ. As Christians, we are promised in spiritual marriage to Him. Looking at it that way makes this a very serious matter.
One Body with One Hope
First of all, we need to clarify why all Christians will one day be together. In John 15, Jesus likens Himself to a vine, with the Father being the cultivator. His disciples were to be the branches, attached to their head, which is Christ. If they reveal themselves as not being true children of God, they are "lopped off."
Those who have truly put their faith in Him will be refined and bear fruit. In verses 4-6, Jesus reveals how we must "remain in Him" or "abide in Him."
Paul illustrates this further. 1 Cor. 12:27 says, "Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it." Verses 12 and 13 say: "For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit." Paul is saying that the individual parts of a body are all attached to the head; and the final result is that the body will function smoothly as one.
Paul also tells how Christ gave gifts to men in order to build up this "body of Christ":
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ. . . we are to grow up in all aspects in Him, who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. -Eph. 4:11, 12, 15-16
Verse 4 of the same chapter says: "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism."
So it is very clear that there is actually only one body of Christ, made up of true believers, and they all have only ONE HOPE. What is that hope? It is the final functioning as a perfect "body" in heaven alongside their Lord and Master. To one who has truly become a part of the body of Christ, the thought of being separate from their Lord and their head is frightful indeed. True Christians have a strong desire to be with their Lord in Spirit, and one day in His physical presence. This is not a desire that develops due to spiritual pride or religious fervor, but it develops in the same way as a natural affection between two persons who are in love.
How many "bodies" of Christ are there? How many hopes have been set out for Christians? How many callings? Let us not be deceived by the clever trickery of men. Jesus warned in John 10:7-9:
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."
How does one know if he is a part of the body of Christ? In John 3:3 Jesus said, "Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." And in verse 5 He says, "unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." The key would be being "born of the Spirit"--being begotten as one of God's spiritual sons.
The work of the Holy Spirit is to testify about our hope in Christ. The Holy Spirit brings conviction upon our hearts, to personally reveal to us how sinful and wretched we really are without the blood of Christ to cover us. We must come face-to-face with the stark realization that nothing we can do of ourselves can please God; for we cannot justify ourselves before God (Rom. 3:20). We deserve death (Rom. 6:23). We must personally ask Christ to cover our sins once and for all; and to make us into a new man in union with Him. The Holy Spirit has to bring a conviction on our hearts, and we either follow through or reject this work of the Holy Spirit. As we follow through and ask the Lord Jesus to share His life with us, we are then born of the Spirit. It is all of His work; He has begun it in our hearts with conviction, and is completing it by dwelling in us permanently through the Spirit.
This is not always an emotional experience. God does not often work by "feelings." But we do thereafter begin to notice real changes in us. We are aware of another influence with us--encouraging us on in a right course, and molding us and disciplining us. It is none other than our Lord and Savior Jesus. We feel a new life within us, according to Rom. 8:11:
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
You are now a son of God according to verse 14: "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." You have the hope of sharing with Him; you are now part of the body of Christ; you are an heir to all of the blessings that He has to give. Verses 16 and 17 says:
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him.
If you are sensitive to it, you will realize that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit now live with you and have made their home within you in Spirit, according to John 14:17-23:
. . . the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. After a little while the world will behold Me no more; but you will behold Me; because I live, you shall live also. In that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
. . . he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him, and will disclose Myself to him. . . . If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him.
What would Christians do in heaven? Other than worshiping the Lord (Rev. 15:3-4), the Bible also reveals that we shall reign with Christ as kings and priests (Rev. 20:6). Perhaps, as Rev. 5:10 suggests, we will one day reign upon the earth, as the literal Greek renders it. This would also harmonize with Rev. 21:2-3, which after speaking of a new heavens and a new earth, says:
And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He shall dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be among them."
It literally says that God will dwell among His people on the earth. Who is none other than "God manifest in the flesh" but Christ himself?
The new earth shall remain forever. The glorified body of Christ will apparently have access to it. The book of Revelation is a book of prophecy that remains to be fully understood, but one thing is for sure: Those who have put their faith and trust in the Lamb's promises and look forward to sharing with Him will abide forever.
Amazing

Hi Randy: Excellent. Thanks very much for such a thorough treatment of this topic. By the way, my dughter, who posts as AmazingProgeny (AP) will be providing a supplement accounting to my article on your site, "Letting Your Kids make the Own Decision" on How I helped my Family leave Jehovah's Witnesses. It should prove to be an interesting addition to that, and hope you will find it satisfactory to include on your site. Thanks again. - Amazing

ANOINTING - How JWs really know!

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