Maybe they'll open a bunch of strip malls throughout the United States and include Starbucks, Dress Barns, Home Depots, and a Dollar Store.
Lurkers! The Watchtower's Hour of Test is Here
by metatron 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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No Apologies
ROFL Forty!!!! Good One!!
No Apologies
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gitasatsangha
The Watchtower could let go of its hold on congregations, by various means, the most easiest being the dissolution of the Service Department. Without the system of Circuit, District, and Zone oversears, there would be no channel of hierarchy to "the Mother". But I doubt they would do that. Halls owe the Building fund a lot of money, essentially just bricks in the pyramid scheme that is Watchtower Bethel.
But what could happen is a popular uprising of congregations, essentially schism. As I understand it, at least in america, most of the Halls are legally independant corportations. This removes all liability for their actions and indebitures from the Watchtower Society. The WTS is in the catbird seat, because it can control dogma, denie elder appointments, and at the same time skim the proffits by encourageing congregations to build halls they can't pay for without massive debt to the WTS. Voila: Feudalism. But turnabout is fairplay, and if these congregations had suitable will and alternative leadership, they could, in a crisis point, go rogue and sever all ties to the WTS.
What would they loose? The name Jehovahs Witnesses for starters. WTS has a copyright on "Jehovahs Witnesses". So you won't see "Reformed Jehovahs Witnesses" or anything like that. Looking from past breakaway groups, the might resort to being called Bible Students. But JW mythology runs deep, and by now most JWs are indoctrinated to thinking they SHOULD take the name Jehovah's Witnesses based on an odd interpretation of an obscure scipture in Isaiah. In religion, symbolism is everything. Takingt away the JW name is a bit like having the Vatican have a copyright on the crucifix, and only allow its use to groups it approves of with adequate funding. It might work out different depending in which country one is in, so perhaps one might see, say, a massive break of congregations in Japan over some issue like alternative military service, wheras even the most disgruntled congregational bodies in America keep on keepin' on, for nothing better then a name.
What would they loose next? Literature. Jehovahs Witnesses are fueled on rehashing of the same theological pablum over decades, and with the passing of Fred Franz, there truly is "nothing new under the sun" for the Witnesses. Could schismatic congregations survive the adaptation into a more bible based sect? Would the end up resembling the Christadelphians or anabaptists? Its interesting to speculate, but I doubt we'll see that happen because:
What would they loose finally? All reason for existance. There's a reason that bible student groups haven't done very well without the iron grip of Bethel. With Bethel, JWs are a dangerous cult propelled by strict allegience to what is felt to be "The Faithful and Discreet Slave". Older Bible Student groups basically believe that Pastor Russell was the FDS, so they are locked into a pattern and cannot change much, they cannot grow or appeal to anyone beyond their original members and descendants. Any newer Bible Student groups don't even have THAT. They'd basically have a vast array of unsupportable doctrine on their hands, and without some kind of unforseen new ideas and leadership (as opposed to the despicable idea of "headship"), schismatic JW congregations would not be able to offer much that other more established Christian sects could not offer better.
So perhaps the downright abysmal leadership at Bethel WILL oneday upset enough people that the congregations walk out on it. I don't think that Bethel would ever set them loose on their own. There's money AND power to be lost. But I also doubt the that "Prague Spring" of such congregations would last long. It would be the dying gasp of a unmourned beast.
-The Git
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Nathan Natas
Gita said,
WTS has a copyright on "Jehovahs Witnesses".
I don't think they do, actually. The name was coined around 1931 and at that time, copyrights had a limited term - they expired after 28 years. That means that IF the term was copyrighted, the copyright was expired at the end of 1959 unless it was renewed, and back in the 1950's and 60's the WTS paid NO ATTENTION to copyright renewal for two reasons:
1. Armageddon was gong to happen "any day now". This would be the public reason.
2. The WTS is a book and magazine publishing company, and their "5 year plan" is to continuously issue glorious "NEW LIGHT" in the form of new publications. Keep the cash flow going. Old publications were a liability, the bastard red-headed child who lived under the stairs.
MAYBE the WTS has term "Jehovah's Witness(es)" TRADEMARKED. That would be a different kettle of fish, possibly.
At times I have speculated that maybe in the highest levels of the Borg, there were some who thought that reality could be altered if enough brains were thinking the same thing - that if you had, say, 20 million brains thinking that Armageddon was due that the mental force would itself create Armageddon.
Probably that's giving them credit for an imagination they lack.
What is more likely is that they old men at the top are a bunch of grumpy old men with various psychological disturbances that caused them to despise the world and pray for its destruction (and simultaneously, their own glorification.) One after another, these guys have been filling up holes six feet deep, and the message should be clear that their "visions of glory" are bullshit.
They advertise the ultimate free lunch - eternal life in a paradise - and thanks to the internet and a generation of anti-prophets, the message is getting out that it is just like ALL free lunches - it ain't free, and the price is way higher than you think..
Their sock puppet cannot protect them.
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XQsThaiPoes
Actually I think you are wrong on all accounts, but I may be 100% wrong.
"The name Jehovah's Witnesses" is a lousy name. Also the wts would have to sue. Considering how courts hate church battles I am assuming this would go easy. They can only trade mark the name "jehovah's witnesses". If the name becomes public domain then anyone can use it. Asprin for example was a trade name. THe WT may be forced to use the christian congregation of Jehovah's Winesses. THey may be expecting their trademark to run out hence the longer more specific name. If something is copyrighted you can't copy the work. THe two words "Jehovah's Witnesses" is not a work. THere are people not (edit NOW) tooling up to sue for the rights to bugs bunny and mickey mouse because they are becoming public domain in a few decades. Disney and WB are panicing. Sure they will own all previous works but the characters well be like uncle sam open to any artist critique and exploitation.
"Literature." The WT literature is prinited in excess of distrobution. THey can easily form newtorks to smuggle literature out. Just like the WT does to smuggle it in. Also the WT does not really care.The assemlies are open to the public and they are the only thing the GB does directly. THe thing most JWs have not realize is the WT has little to do with the JWs. Once they realize this they could rob the wt blind. Take as much litterature as they want and donate nothing. It is almost like that today where the cost of publishing does not mean the cost of donations.
"schismatic JW congregations would not be able to offer much that other more established Christian sects could not offer better. "If the JWs used the other half if wt double talk then it would be a very liberal religion more so than other faiths. Also their is no real "reason" to establish any new religion if you take that attitude. But as you see that is not the case. I think a new JW church would actually have appeal. As for the FDS thing all born again christians are FDS according the WT. Born again Christians are easy to come by. Also remember the great crowd is unsaved but will be rewarded materially. So that has sex appeal if pimped out. You can have the modern day carthars. A class going to heaven that obey strict rules and a common class of general do gooders not obligated to do anything.
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gitasatsangha
Nathan,
My mistake. I did mean trademark, sorry. "True Faith Jehovahs Witnesses" exist, apparently without having to change their name in Romania, and they are schismatic, so probably it isnt as much a problem as I had thought.
Your thoughts of enough people altering reality are interesting. They have really given me pause to think and put some things together in my mind, tonight. Most will think I am a looney for what I am about to type, and that is ok. It's a benign sort of loonyness.
I think it is rather apparent from some of the symbology they have snuck into their illustrations, that at least someone up in Bethel understands certain Rosicrucian/Golden Dawn symbologies, or if they don't understand them, they've at least seen them and use them to communicate something. When I say that, I am not trying to sound like a nutty conspiracy theorist. I have been a member of a western-esoteric Order for awhile, (I know, I am somewhat eclectic, but a fella has to make up for lost time), and I have run into some of these things, though used completely differently. Anyway, if someone, or some people, at the top of the org, were in fact "Left Hand Path" mystics who believed in some sort of Thelemic "power of will" to influence events, then they'd probably feel they had an absolute need to keep such information subrosa.
evidences:
repeated use (and it has been documented here, enough) of occult symbollogy hidden in Watchtower Society publication illustrations. Fixation on ancient Egypt by Russell. Primative gerematria openly used in many of the society's books, even later ones like the Revelaton Climax book. Fixation on Tetragrammaton (the top of the qaballistic Tree of Life). Using Johannes Greber's translation. Focus of Jehovah's "home world" at Alcyone. "Golden Age" magazine.
my hypothesis:
Russell almost had to be familiar with burgeoning Rosicrucian societies in Pennsylvania during the late 1900's and early 20th century. I believe he may have been in contact with Swynebourne Clymer, imperator of the Fraternitas Rose Croix, a somewhat rogue order, which still exists today (current head of the order still lives in the Beverly Hall complex, in Pennsylvania). Russell's tombstone is often thought to be Masonic, and that may be so, but Masonic and Rosicrcucian symbollogy often borrow from one another.
Russell went off on a tangent of his own. He wasn't interested in running a secret society, and a more open one seemed to coalesce around his publishing of the Watch Tower. He became a defacto religous leader. His organization, though a bit odd, was nothing like the monster juggernaut that Rutherford would help turn it into. And behind Rutherford, especially in his later years, and really even now after his death, you have the theological pinnings of Freddie Franz.
By the 30's, the esoteric schools were branching off into two different directions. The Golden Dawn temples were almost all gone, with the members having gone to form other societies. In America AMORC and Clymer's FRC were pedantically duking it out in the press. Remember this was a time when fraternal socities were still rather popular as compared to today, where they are at best met with a snicker, and worst with fear. Its not at all unreasonable to assume that many members of these groups joined the JW's/Bible Students do to the take on the Pyramid, numerology, etc.
The bad boy of esotericism, Crowley, was starting to write certain things about the power of will.. Meanwhile the JW's were launching "The Golden Age" magazine, which openly talked of Jehovah living in Alcyone, and recommended the demon-channelling book Angels and Women. http://www.premier1.net/~raines/review.html . I personally thing they may very well be practising Enochian Magick, but I have no proof. Enochian Magick is fairly controverisal, even among esoteric groups. Some believe its a method of contacting angels and basically getting information out of them, others regard it as a dangerous mind-toy that is misused more often then not, and best avoided.
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avengers
Maybe they'll open a bunch of strip malls throughout the United States
Who's gonna be doing the stripping?
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metatron
I've suspected for some time that Russell had a connection to occult magic practises that were popular
in the 1890's. There are too many coincidences involving symbols and phrases - in particular the occult meaning
of "Watchtower" in Enochian magic, their occult use of the Tetragrammaton and phrases like the "Golden Age".
The "Golden Dawn" was very prominent back then and I think you guys who try to say that Russell was a Mason
are missing something far more ominous.
The "Golden Dawn" also used phrases about "Theocratic Unity", as well.
metatron
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metatron
We all may have developed opinions about the Watchtower's future based on a fallacy: who says the leadership
will continue to believe their own nonsense?
I accept that various members of the Governing Body appear to be sincere HOWEVER, there is also evidence that has emerged
from various defectors that there is also a great deal on INSINCERITY within the leadership. Ray Franz documents how they
freely tossed around dates and radical revisions with little care. I have known old timers who kept their radical opinions secret.
The deepening exposure of the internet and resultant malaise has already brought much of this out into the open.
Is it possible that, one day, Watchtower directors could just 'let go' and enjoy the manipulation of company assets?
Let's not forget that the Soviet Union collapsed in large measure because its commissars lost all faith in the system
and became cynical.
Could history repeat itself?
metatron
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Nosferatu
THe thing most JWs have not realize is the WT has little to do with the JWs. Once they realize this they could rob the wt blind. Take as much litterature as they want and donate nothing.
Are you hinting that we should organize an apostate literature raid? Apostates across the world could go to a Kingdom Hall, get some literature, then leave. Next meeting, they can go to a different hall and grab a bunch more literature. What could they do? Their meetings are open to the public, their literature is based on a donation system. As far as the guy at the literature counter knows, the person asking for the literature is very zealous with what he is learning. JWs donate for the magazines at the counter, then place them for free. It's all coming out of the publisher's pockets.