IS THE WTS a PROVEN FRAUD?

by Amazing 25 Replies latest jw friends

Amazing

JW defenders often claim that those of us who left the WTS are shipwreaked in our faith and have succumbed to apostate thinking. Of course we challenge this with our knowledge of Watch Tower teaching and history, but they still fail to get the clue. They are caught in the mend-controlling of the Watch Tower and accept without facts in evidence the label placed on us of Apostates.
What are the FACTS that PROVE the Watch Tower is a FRAUD?: There are so many it is hard to choose which one to discuss, but I will use their false prophecies.
The Society in a WT article claim they have never spoken a prophecy in God's name, nor are they inspired. Yet Russell in the late 1800s clearly stated regarding their prophecy that 1914 was God's date and could not be changed, even if they would. He thus asscribes God's authorship to the fulfillments of their predictions for that year. These fulfillments ALL failed miserably. Similar things were true of the Judge's remarks about 1925, etc.
The 1958 Wt, AlanF has the exact reference, clearly states that God reached out, touched their lips and put his words in their mouths. This is none other than a claim for Divine Inspiration. God's words on their lips cannot be anything but Inspired.
The 1971 book, The nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah clearly states in Chapter 4 that they have a Commission to Speak in the Divine Name, and that the FDS is a Prophet Class GREATER than the Inspired Prophet Eziekel, a prophet who even had a Bible book named after him. This clearly and irrefutably elevates themselves equal to and greater than a Divinely Inspired Prohet, making thier position more important, and their message Inspired with even greater urgency and importance for the human race, not just the nation of Israel.
Yet, by 1993, they deny all this and state that they only make suggestions. Earlier in a Wt magazine they claim that one must accept all the unique teachings of the Society lest they be considered an apostate. Among those teachings is the claims associated with 1914, a proven false prophecy, fail date, and fraud.
The JW defenders are so completely and emotionally immersed into their fantasy that they have the truth, that they are mentally unable to see this issue, and resort to calling us Apostates, so that they can feel good about themselves. They are totally unable to see the truth of a matter and have the balls to take a stand for truth and concern for people, and humbly admit they are wrong.
I challenge any active or inactive JW who believes in the Watch Tower religion to deal with the above publications and provide a truthful, logical, and satisfying explanation of the dual and contradictory teachings of their religion. - Amazing
Celtic

Hear Hear!!
I posted something along similar lines a few days ago and couldn't agree more with your sentiments.
On a more professional note, I am currently doing research via UK think tanks into the societies claims for charity status. I can see no works that the organisation is accomplishing within the community to have this privileged tax status which in my view amounts to fraud of the system.
If anyone else would like to contribute their views, I would be most willing to listen and converse.
Like you say Amazing.
peace
Celtic
joelbear

You start from a premise that the faithful and discreet slave must always predict things truthfully in order to be followed. This is not the premise that witnesses start from.
They start from the premise that god backs the faithful and discreet slave because they follow his commandments. Anything beyond that is simply human error or as You Know puts it, getting ahead of Jehovah.
Starting from this premise allows witnesses to overlook any mistakes in prophetic doctrine that the FDS comes out with.
Indeed while the prophetic teachings started my doubts, I did not sever my ties with the society until I was convinced that my primary premise was incorrect. That premise being that Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society were somehow more faithful to god and more moral than other people. This premise was challenged when I began to associate with people who were not witnesses on a regular basis and found out that they were basically the same as the witnesses I knew.
Its the false outer veneer of morality that is the real incorrectness in most people's minds about Witnesses. Attacking mistakes in prophetic understanding is a side issue.
take care and hugs
Joel
You Know

The Society in a WT article claim they have never spoken a prophecy in God's name, nor are they inspired. Yet Russell in the late 1800s clearly stated regarding their prophecy that 1914 was God's date and could not be changed, even if they would. He thus asscribes God's authorship to the fulfillments of their predictions for that year. These fulfillments ALL failed miserably.

As any Witness knows, the doctrine of 1914 is based upon Biblical chronology. Aside from the goofy pyramid stuff, which the Society long-ago jettisoned, there is no need for any "inspiration" from God to view 1914 as an appointed time in Scripture. The beginning of the Great War on that exact year is seen as an extrodinary vindication of the view laid out by the Watchtower. Although thre Society originally expected the events of the Great War to lead directly into Armageddon, in time they realized that that was just the beginning of the last days, not the conclusion. Basically they suffered from the same sort of "irrational exuberance" as did the apostles in the 1st century who imagined that the kingdom was going to "instantly display itself."
The 1958 Wt, AlanF has the exact reference, clearly states that God reached out, touched their lips and put his words in their mouths. This is none other than a claim for Divine Inspiration. God's words on their lips cannot be anything but Inspired.
This is one of the fundamental apostate tricks. The words that God puts in his servants mouth are those words that were already inspired into existence and recorded in the Bible. The anointed merely have authority to speak those words. That's what Isaiah 61;1 states, which Christ quoted, which also applies in a broader context to all anointed ones, that God's anointing spirit moves them to speak the good news to others and to announce God's coming day of vengeance to his enemies. There is no need for God to inspire his servants to utter any new messages because our message is based entirely on the Scriptures.
This clearly and irrefutably elevates themselves equal to and greater than a Divinely Inspired Prohet, making thier position more important, and their message Inspired with even greater urgency and importance for the human race, not just the nation of Israel.
You are confusing having a position of authority, as God's anointed ones do, with those who are directly inspired to utter specific revelations from God. The anointed are God's ambassadors of his kingdom while on earth. And Jesus stated that whoever accepts them accepts Christ and Jehovah also, and whoever rejects them also rejects Christ and Jehovah. Whoever hurts one of the least of Christ's brothers hurts Jesus himself. That's a very exulted position. Much greater than the prophets. So, unquestionably, Jesus anointed disciples have a much greater position of authority and accountability than the prophets of old, like Ezekiel. But, we are not inspired to utter prophecy as were the ancient prophets. Revelation says that the "bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophecy." So everything that needs to be know about Jesus is in the Sacred Scriptures. And only Jehovah's anointed ones and those whom they teach can truly understand how Christ fulfills the prophecies. In a sense the body of Christ also lives the prophecies since Christ himself lives through them.
Yet, by 1993, they deny all this and state that they only make suggestions. Earlier in a Wt magazine they claim that one must accept all the unique teachings of the Society lest they be considered an apostate. Among those teachings is the claims associated with 1914, a proven false prophecy, fail date, and fraud.
As I pointed out, your cheesy efforts to twist our statments about what it means to be a prophet are meaningless. As for 1914, clearly the Wt has attached way too many prophecies to that particular date. What is clear to us though is that 1914 began the last days of this system and Christ's parousia. There are many details to discuss as to how to realign certain prophecies more accurately. But we don't discuss those things in a forum like this.
The JW defenders are so completely and emotionally immersed into their fantasy that they have the truth, that they are mentally unable to see this issue, and resort to calling us Apostates
I generally don't resort to using the crude venacular, but there is an expression that seems appropriate: "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." / You Know
Francois

SHIT!
Who has a copy of the WT Index? I don't, but when I had access to one, I looked up the word "prophet." My mother had made the insupportable claim that the JWs had never claimed to be prophets, and I refused to let it slide.
Over her objections, I got our her own copy of the WT index, an old one published prior to the need for the Borg to cover up (lie about) what they had said about themselves.
Sure enough, there it was, or rather there they were; lots of citations to the word "prophet." One of the red-handed quotes was in a WT study article and made the blatant, unambiguous claim that the WTBTS governing body "ACTS AS A PROPHET."
My mother was silenced. Permanently. Silenced by the undeniable truth of the claim made by the Borg that it's a prophet. She's not supposed to be associating with me in the first place. And she certainly shouldn't be discussing the WT and its teachings with me. But rules, you know, they're for other people.
Can someone who has an old index please look up "prophet" and find the cite referenced above?
When one honestly examines the WTBTS and its history of doctrinal flip-flops, failed prophecies, fraudulent financial transactions, doctored histories, and policies that amount to accessory to outright murder, you'd expect the Society and its followers to produce reactions of utmost humility as opposed to the sheer arrogance and cynical, sneering hypocrisy as revealed in You Know's latest retreat from reality, above. Such flights from reality are known in the mental healthcare field as psychotic.
As noted, religion is an emotional phenomena, the I.Q. of which is zero. And You Know again displays both his emotionalism and his I.Q. in the referenced post.
Francois
My $0.02
bjc2012

You Know:
The beginning of the Great War on that exact year is seen as an extrodinary vindication of the view laid out by the Watchtower. Although thre Society originally expected the events of the Great War to lead directly into Armageddon, in time they realized that that was just the beginning of the last days, not the conclusion. Basically they suffered from the same sort of "irrational exuberance" as did the apostles in the 1st century who imagined that the kingdom was going to "instantly display itself."
Why didn't the so-called "anointed" of that time know that the Great War would NOT lead to Armageddon if they were "led by spirit" as Romans 8:14-16 says?
Their lack of understanding of this very event shows they were NOT of the anointed. -- 1 John 2:20, 27
Also, the situation you describe of first century disciples displaying a lack of understanding about certain details or aspects of the Kingdom occurred BEFORE they were Anointed. Now give us a concrete example or two of this kind of ignorance or lack of understanding, AFTER they were anointed?
bjc
Mulan

Good grief, You Know. Do you really believe they predicted the Great War? They didn't, not even close!! It doesn't vindicate them one little bit, that the war broke out. They predicted it would bring the end to things as they knew them, and they would all be "taken home to dwell with the Lord in the air." And they also predicted the full establishment of the Kingdom, to take the place of all world governments on the earth." (not invisibly, YK) Studies in the Scriptures, Vol 2 states "within 26 years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved...the full establishment of the Kingdom will be accomplished by AD 1914."
You Know

Why didn't the so-called "anointed" of that time know that the Great War would NOT lead to Armageddon if they were "led by spirit" as Romans 8:14-16 says?

For the same reason that the spirit-led apostles had it concealed from them that the Christ was going to be killed and that the kingdom was not going to instantly display itself as they imagined. / yYou Know
You Know

Good grief, You Know. Do you really believe they predicted the Great War?

It doen't matter what they predicted of expected, the fact is that Jesus' great prophecy regarding the commencement of his parousia had a remarkable fulfillment in the Great War and in numerous events and developments subsequent to that. The Watchtower has always been instrumental in calling attention to these things from the Scriptures. Of course, it also foretold that ridiculers would proclaim themselves to be unconvinced by the evidence presented to them, so you have to factor that into your viewpoint. / You Know
bigboi

Hey Mulan:
That's right Mulan. I remeber reading in Dale and Bette Baker's acount on James Caputo's website http://www.disfellowshipped.com how upoon investigating the society's literature of that time the Bakers found that the wts predicted the exact opposite of what actually occurred at that time. Along with what you mentioned, Russell when commenting on the arms race that was happening in Europe at the time, actually wrote that he felt that there would be no war Europe. He felt that by then God would already have begun to excercise judgement on the world with it being over by 1914.
ONE....
Bigboi
"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

IS THE WTS a PROVEN FRAUD?

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