Well, we are drilling for oil up there to fuel are big SUVs
US Hostage, Paul Johnson, Beheaded
by DevonMcBride 178 Replies latest social current
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Crazy151drinker
They know damn well that we are not going to pull out so what is the purpose of cutting off someone's head??
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Yerusalyim
Radical Islam has a LONG history of cutting off heads.
Read on:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13371
By Andrew G. Bostom FrontPageMagazine.com | May 13, 2004
make clear that our intelligentsia are either dangerously uninformed, or simply unwilling to come to terms with this ugly reality: such murders are consistent with sacred jihad practices, as well as Islamic attitudes towards all non-Muslim infidels, in particular, Jews, which date back to the 7 th century, and the Prophet Muhammad's own example.Reactions to the grotesque jihadist decapitation of yet another "infidel Jew," Mr. Berg,
According to Muhammad?s sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad himself sanctioned the massacre of the Qurayza, a vanquished Jewish tribe. He appointed an "arbiter" who soon rendered this concise verdict: the men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims. Muhammad ratified this judgment stating that it was a decree of God pronounced from above the Seven Heavens. Thus some 600 to 900 men from the Qurayza were lead on Muhammad?s order to the Market of Medina. Trenches were dug and the men were beheaded, and their decapitated corpses buried in the trenches while Muhammad watched in attendance. Women and children were sold into slavery, a number of them being distributed as gifts among Muhammad?s companions, and Muhammad chose one of the Qurayza women (Rayhana) for himself. The Qurayza?s property and other possessions (including weapons) were also divided up as additional "booty" among the Muslims, to support further jihad campaigns.
The classical Muslim jurist al-Mawardi (a Shafi?ite jurist, d. 1058) from
?As for the captives, the amir [ruler] has the choice of taking the most beneficial action of four possibilities: the first to put them to death by cutting their necks; the second, to enslave them and apply the laws of slavery regarding their sale and manumission; the third, to ransom them in exchange for goods or prisoners; and fourth, to show favor to them and pardon them. Allah, may he be exalted, says, 'When you encounter those [infidels] who deny [the Truth=Islam] then strike [their] necks' (Qur'an sura 47, verse 4)?....Abu?l-Hasan al-Mawardi, al-Ahkam as-Sultaniyyah." [The Laws of Islamic Governance, trans. by Dr. Asadullah Yate, ( ), Ta-Ha Publishers Ltd., 1996, p. 192. Emphasis added.]
Indeed such odious ?rules? were iterated by all four classical schools of Islamic jurisprudence, across the vast Muslim empire.
For centuries, from the to the Indian subcontinent, jihad campaigns waged by Muslim armies against infidel Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Buddhists and Hindus, were punctuated by massacres, including mass throat slittings and beheadings. During the period of ?enlightened? Muslim rule, the Christians of Iberian Toledo, who had first submitted to their Arab Muslim invaders in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. In the harsh Muslim reprisal that ensued, was pillaged, and all the Christian notables had their throats cut. On the Indian subcontinent, Babur (1483-1530), the founder of the Mughal Empire, who is revered as a paragon of Muslim tolerance by modern revisionist historians, recorded the following in his autobiographical ?Baburnama,? about infidel prisoners of a jihad campaign:
"Those who were brought in alive [having surrendered] were ordered beheaded, after which a tower of skulls was erected in the camp." [ The Baburnama -Memoirs of Babur, Prince and Emperor, translated and edited by Wheeler M. Thacktson, Oxford University Press,1996, p. 188. Emphasis added.]
Recent jihad-inspired decapitations of infidels by Muslims have occurred across the globe- Christians in Indonesia, the Philippines, and Nigeria; Hindu priests and "unveiled" Hindu women in Kashmir; Wall Street Journal reporter, and Jew, Daniel Pearl. We should not be surprised that these contemporary paroxysms of jihad violence are accompanied by ritualized beheadings. Such gruesome acts are in fact sanctioned by core Islamic sacred texts, and classical Muslim jurisprudence. Empty claims that jihad decapitations are somehow "alien to true Islam," however well-intentioned, undermine serious efforts to reform and desacralize Islamic doctrine. This process will only begin with frank discussion, both between non-Muslims and Muslims, and within the Muslim community.
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waiting
Howdy,
I don't usually read political issue threads - which this one contains.
Condolences to the man's family; they will continue to suffer through this atrocity.
As for the issues? Even in this ONE thread - there are so many. HS makes good points - even the US government (at least in the news specials I've watched) says the same thing........the thinking of these people, in general, averages back into the 16th century or so. Says nothing about their intelligence....but their outlook is, generally, savage by 21st century standards........and so are some other civilized countries. And Yeru's saying basically the same thing.
If the Catholic Crusaders were still active in their mindset - could we comprehend/accept them? No more than the terrorists, most likely. Christianity as evolved.......and it's not accurate to just consider the first 300 yrs or so. Gotta do the whole, bloody, history. And it IS a terribly bloody history.
But for the reader (like me)? Interesting thread. Why all the drama from both sides claiming *foul post* is beyond me. Sorry, don't mean to belittle the situation........but I've seen a lot worse posts on a lot of other threads in the past.
Whatever happens next (and there will be).......may it eventually, hopefully, lead to a peace/compromise of sorts.
- and different cars.
waiting
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Daga
These people are so foreign in nature to Westerners that it's hard to think that they are the same species. They glory in this slaughter, and they will continue to do it as long as they have the chance. Now they've got some poor South Korean and they're going to do the same thing to him. This tactic is clearly not working but they carry on because they like doing it. They like the horror and disgust, it's an affirmation to them of their superiority. There is only one way to stop this and that's to kill the leadership. You'll notice there's been a dramatic reduction in the number of Israeli victims of terror since the Israelis started taking out the terrorist leadership.
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Double Edge
This tactic is clearly not working but they carry on because they like doing it.
Exactly... in fact, I think a lot of them aren't religious at all, I think in a normal society they would be the criminals, the Jeffrey Dommers (sp) , but they get away with deluding themselves thinking that they have a "cause".
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Crazy151drinker
I wonder if the attitudes of our local british friends will change when one of these nuts sets off a nuke in London?? I doubt it
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AlanF
Yeru posted the following from a linked article:
According to Muhammad?s sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad himself sanctioned the massacre of the Qurayza, a vanquished Jewish tribe. He appointed an "arbiter" who soon rendered this concise verdict: the men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims. Muhammad ratified this judgment stating that it was a decree of God pronounced from above the Seven Heavens. Thus some 600 to 900 men from the Qurayza were lead on Muhammad?s order to the Market of Medina. Trenches were dug and the men were beheaded, and their decapitated corpses buried in the trenches while Muhammad watched in attendance. Women and children were sold into slavery, a number of them being distributed as gifts among Muhammad?s companions, and Muhammad chose one of the Qurayza women (Rayhana) for himself. The Qurayza?s property and other possessions (including weapons) were also divided up as additional "booty" among the Muslims, to support further jihad campaigns.
Hillary_Step made the point that exactly this sort of behavior is at the root of Christianity. Since Christianity arose from Judaic roots, and the Old Testament describes the Jews as doing exactly the same things to their enemies as Muhammad prescribed that Muslims do to their enemies, his point is correct.
Note the parallel description in Numbers 31 (New International Version):
Vengeance on the Midianites
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people." 3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them...
7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man... 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.
13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army-the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds-who returned from the battle.
15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man...
25 The LORD said to Moses, 26 "You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the LORD one out of every five hundred, whether persons, cattle, donkeys, sheep or goats. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the LORD's part. 30 From the Israelites' half, select one out of every fifty, whether persons, cattle, donkeys, sheep, goats or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the LORD's tabernacle." ...
51 Moses and Eleazar the priest accepted from them the gold-all the crafted articles. 52 All the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds that Moses and Eleazar presented as a gift to the LORD weighed 16,750 shekels. [2] 53 Each soldier had taken plunder for himself. 54 Moses and Eleazar the priest accepted the gold from the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds and brought it into the Tent of Meeting as a memorial for the Israelites before the LORD .Because both Muslims and Jews often claimed that their killing, plundering and enslaving were specifically authorized -- indeed, were ordered -- by their respective gods, there is/was no possibility of reasoning with them. When these people go/went waging their "holy wars" against "the infidel", the only way to stop them is/was by fighting fire with fire, since they don't/wouldn't stop until they are/were dead, and the cost of dying is/was greater than the cost of obeying their gods. In that, I tend to agree with Yeru, that a potentially successful way of dealing with Muslim terrorists is to kill them with bullets dipped in pig's blood and bury them with pig entrails, thus taking away their martyr's prize of going to a paradise in heaven and having sex with 72 beautiful virgins, or whatever it is they're going after. I strongly suspect that people like Berg and Johnson would be alive today if this threat were made real.
AlanF
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Yerusalyim
Hillary_Step made the point that exactly this sort of behavior is at the root of Christianity. Since Christianity arose from Judaic roots, and the Old Testament describes the Jews as doing exactly the same things to their enemies as Muhammad prescribed that Muslims do to their enemies, his point is correct.
Christianity was a peaceful and persecuted religion for it's first 300 + years, and it's founder was a man of peace killed violently.
The Jews haven't practiced this in over 2000 years.
And no, those here would find it the fault of the US or Western Culture in general as oppossed to blaming the terrorists.
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waiting
Christianity was a peaceful and persecuted religion for it's first 300 + years, and it's founder was a man of peace killed violently.
The Jews haven't practiced this in over 2000 years.
Well, Yeru, if you're going to use that reasoning.........then the Jewish religion had a peaceful beginning too......remember Noah? All he did was save animals and his family. No killing. But the growth of the Jewish shepherds/nation in the OT? They were a killing crew.
Just because the Christian faith had a peaceful beginning - that doesn't denote the Christian faith history. The entire history of Christianity is the focus......just as with any other religion. When in hs, I asked the religion nun why we didn't study about the Spanish and Roman Inquisitions......as they were each hundreds of years of RC history? "We don't talk about those things." Well, those centuries of bloodbaths, along with the Crusade bloodbaths, must be taken into historical context. Not just the first 300 years. Obviously, the Catholic church, along with Christianity, couldn't maintain that peace for thousands of years. And the Catholic Church made themselves into a powerful goverment/nation for centuries from all those bloodbaths & feudal systems.
But as HS belaboriously brought out, Christianity has evolved somewhat - to acheive another way of thinking, sometimes. Muslims have not.
The beginnings of the Jewish religion and the Christianity religions are more similar.....as AlanF has brought out. But the beginning of anything doesn't define the thing. It's the entire structure that defines.
Good thread.
waiting