Yeru
I've not seen anyone here claim that Islam is evil, of whom do you speak?
I see no difference between claims of being intrinsically violence or of being evil. If anyone wants to argue an intrinsically violent religion isn't evil, they're free to do so. It would be funny.
They are so attached to their opinions that even when the facts they use to back up the opinions (such as the old "Islam is an intrinsically violent religon" opinion
This isn't an opinion, it's a documented fact that Islam started and spread through violence
Thank you for proving both of my above points.
Rather than characteristing the issue as good law-abiding people against bad law-breaking people, religious extremists or bigots on either side make it a conflict of religions.
No, what you have is lefties (for the most part) trying to show conservatives couching the argument as a religious one.
If your argument is 'Islam is an intrinsically violent religion', it is a religious argument. Which part of that do you fail to comprehend? Would Muslims seeing people like you (active Christians) characterise their religion as evil think you were advancing a humanistic argument? No, they would see it as a religious argument, which it is, just as the Wahhabi creed of hate is a religious argument.
Just as the Wahhabis see no hope of a peaceful co-existence with non-Muslims, so too do extremist Christians
who are the "extremists"?
Thi Chi is all in favour of wiping our Islam. He's said as much on this thread - you do actually READ the posts in a thread Yeru?
"The implications of this is chilling, and makes me more convinced that our cause is "just" to remove these sick bas**rds from the face of the Earth."
He's so eager to get his message over he posted the same message in two threads! Extreme enough?
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/14/73706/1181828/post.ashx#1181828
And when Crazy advocated nuclear sterilaization of the MIddle East, here's our Christians's reponse;
"Do you object to the efficient way Drinker wants to end this aggression,"
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/73045/1180345/post.ashx#1180345
How come it's okay for him to describe nuking the MIddel East as 'efficient', but sick to describe the similar wholsale murder of innocents that took place in the Holocaust as 'efficient'. Or will your inability to ctiricise a fellow-CHristian (even one preaching death) going to make you ignore this question?
He's just a particulary offensive example. Other extremists are people who, despite the lack of evidence (how many peaceful Muslims? And how many violent ones?), characterise Isalm as evil, even if they're not in favour of a 'Final Solution'. That makes you an extremist too, as unless you can prove an intrinsically violent religion is not by definiton evil, you arguing one is as good as the other. I'd say about 36% of the USA's population are to some extent religious extremists as they believe the modern strate of Israel is part of the fulfillment of prophecy leading to the second coming.
and misinformed religious bigots
who are the bigots
There are at least two posters on this board who have made comments along the lines of 'wouldn't it be nice if we had an excuse to nuke loads of Muslims' - an action which would kill millions of people who have committed no crime. Crazy said so here;
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/73045/1179530/post.ashx#1179530
... and dolphman in this thread I believe. Seems they are obstinately or intolerantly devoted to their own opinions and prejudices. Or maybe, being charitable,they are violent morons with no idea of what's funny or not. What are they going to do next, a stand-up routine about the Holocaust?
see no hope of peaceful co-existence with Muslims.
I've not seen anyone on this board make this arguement...can you point me to it.
Of course I can; here's our resident extremist Christian Thi Chi, showing exactly how much he can ignore of a simple message like 'love your enemy'. I wish people would see 'nigger' everytime they saw 'arab' or 'Muslim' in his posts, as they'd more likely see him for what he is... and yes, obviously black people were not waging a war against white people but the same is true of most Muslims; they're not waging any war but get lumped in with those that do by the bigots. Anyway, this is Thi Chi being a prophet of doom;
"we can try to rationalize this historical aggression (by their own leaders admission) away and start appeasements, and face a thousand years of darkness, or we can make the choice to stand up to this ongoing threat that will send us back to the 9 th century, if we loose."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/73045/1179097/post.ashx#1179097
It is a pity we can't stick all the fuckers on an island and leave them to their own hate-filled little world.
Besides which, the Wahhabis are killing those they can't "co-exist" with, the Christians aren't.
I've already shown that some people want the West to commit genocide. Please try to follow the discussion Yeru.
Fortunately the majority of people in the Islamic world do not favour the actions of their violent minority,
In Saudi Arabia this is not true, or in Palestinian territory, etc. The majority should be a bit more vocal if they oppose the minority.
Yeru, you're misinformed; actually the majority of Palestinians favour peace - slightly more than the percentage of Jews favouring peace, although the margin or error of the survey makes the two groups opinions inseperable.
http://www.mafhoum.com/press6/171C32.pdf
How long will you continue to hold on to an opinion when time and time again the facts you use to support it are shown to be exagerations or untrue? Check the definiton of bigot again if you like.
It's a pity you don't follow the news well enough to know how wrong you are. Did you know that Bush was praised by the Arab media for apologising for the actions against detainees in Iraq? They contrasted his behaviour favourably with that of current and past Arabic reigemes. Better levels of journalistic integrity than FOX has displayed as they're just the out-house of the Whitehouse Press Office.
At least many Wahhabis have excuses for their ignorance. Really, what excuse, other than the ones YOU offer.
Well, how about being raised in a feudal state with power split between the al-Sauds and Wahhabis where people are essentially enculturated in a intolerant, hateful and misogynistic fashion and convinced that their interpretation of Islam is the sole valid one? Whilst the largest democratic country in the world, in full knowledge of the human rights record of the country, continues to give it a favoured status as it sits on huge amounts of oil?
Seems to me someone raised in those conditons is less responsible for being wrong and misinformed than you are, as you haven't been brainwashed all your life but are still wrong and misinformed as you have shown, again, in your post.
But being demonstrably wrong has not ONCE changed your opinion, so I doubt it will this time.
The Wahhabi doctrines attract people from cultures under pressure
Yes, those poor Arabs, they have such a hard life.;
Keep it up Yeru.
If you want to argue that people do not have a hard life if they raised in situations where they are fed a twisted version of reality to convince them of the validity of the beliefs they are raised to have, and where non-compliance carries a very real risk, you're just showing how little you have learnt by coming to a board of cult survivors.
polarised, defiant, 'traditonalistic' beliefs always attract people who feel their way of life is under attack.
Or maybe they feel under attack because they are polarized.
Don't you understand what I mean by polarised? Probably not, as you seem to miss the point.
Look at the fundamental Christians in the USA, for example.
Sooo, Christians are extremists? Or just those that feel Christianity is under attack? How is that played out...are the Christians taking prisoners and cutting off their heads?
I don't think that you have to cut someone's head off to be an extremist.
Just as modern humaistic and scientific values have generated a backlash amongst fundamental Christians clinging to the myths, intolerance and misogyny of former centuries, so too has modern Western society generated a backlash amongst the worst off of the Muslim cultures.
Define "worst off" and why are they so bad off? How has the west caused this? I'm not eveing going to address your obvious hatred of christian values.
Oh Yeru, shame on you! Do some research on education, equality, freedom of speech and human rights violations and then tell me that the average Arab is in anyhway comparable to your average European or American!
As for hatred of Christian values... you pathetic lump, don't straw man me scarecrow... I mentioned intolerance and misogyny. Are you are claiming those as Christian values? Please, use the instructions that come in the box you get your opinions in to ensure you assemble your arguments in a way they don't immediately fold in on themsleves. LOL. But if those two are CHristian values, I will hate them.
But love? Silly me got the impression it was a majorly important Christian value. I don't hate that... in fact, maybe you can answer me what Thi Chi studiously avoids answering (as he can't); which part of "loving your enemy" don't you understand?
We were ignorant enough, in the West, to think we could make fucking barbarians immensely rich without problems.
Ahhh, you have such a tolerant view of Arabs
Oh, deary me, I describe a feudal country where they execute women by burying them up to their necks and throwing rocks at them as barbaric! Well, bang goes my liberal credentials... or didn't it occur to you I base my opinions on facts, not on an agenda?
We thought it was okay to be democratic at home but to support the most convenient dictator or feudal despot for our political agendas.
I actually agree with you here, though to be fair, the dictator was already there, we didn't put them in power..
I don't just mean Saddam. What about the al-Saud's? Surely you American's fascination with Royalty cannot of blinded you to the fact he's a despot? AH, but he's got oil, so, who cares? He's on our side! ROTFLMAO! The West's foreign policy has been set by greed and implemented by morons.
We thought we could chop up the world according to our interests and not suffer any negative reprecussions in the years to come.
We've truely reaped the whirlwind.
Does that make what we did bad?
By outcome AND motive, almost always. We divided according to political and financial expediency. Not according to natural or historic boundaries between indigenous peoples.
Now, as ever there are idiots getting semi-hard-ons at the thought of incinerating innocent men women and children. Some of them are Muslims. Some of them are Christians.
Really, who, and who has said such a thing
Read the thread Yeru. Read the quotes I've linked and/or c&p'd. Try to follow the discussion please?
Some of them are just morons. But they are all scum.
Let us in the West take the battle to those who would do harm to innocent people and keep it away from the innocent.
Explain how this is done when the Terrorists hide in the midst of innocent people?
With difficulty soldier boy. But if we kill too many innocent people, we will become their enemy.
Someone whose kid gets killed by a stray cop-bullet when the bullet as fired at a criminal will likely find it hard to forgive the policeman. The loss is too great no matter the lack of intention.
Entire communities who have had dozens and dozens of innocent people killed in attempts at getting the bad guys... well, we can drive them to hate us quite easily. As can talk of blotting them all out with nukes. As can characterising this as Islam vs. Christianity.
