by Schizm 74 Replies latest jw friends
I have a small dog of my own that I love dearly
But, a dog is a dog is a dog.
and when I have small children visiting, I put her in the bedroom and lock the door.
There are some kids that I can tell them to ignore the dog and leave her alone and they listen. Then, there are other kids who just will not listen and keep pestering the dog.
sincerely
Special K
Simpons?um,no.....
You want to talk about me being immune to facts eh.....
I have just stated my own opinon and never once did I take it upon myself to insult you....
Hope you sleep well at night......
...btw, no, I don't use our dog for a search and rescue, we have him to be loved and be respected in our family.um, ok - ?btw, were you on the Simpson jury?
what the hell was that comment for?
sheesh.. anyone who knows Morty knows how much she has the biggest heart in the world. If there was even a chance that an animal in her care would hurt others, it would not exist. I don't see why she is getting jumped on for her comment. We all have heard horror stories of other breeds of animals who have maimed children. No matter what kind of dog we can have, if the owner trains it to be vicious or even does not give it the proper care, they can become killers. My cousin's neighbors had a St Bernard, and they are the most loveable animal normally by nature, but it literally bit the face off a little girl. When I was growing up a little girl in our congregation threw our puppy that was a collie (well known for their loveable family nature) up in the air and it came down and hit it's back reallyl hard, the dog was ruined. (She also was bit by three other dogs that summer) We did everything we could to work with the dog, but it never trusted anyone but our family members again and we had to have it put down.....
I think the Simpson jury comment to Morty was WAY OUT OF LINE..
Ditto.
I think the Simpson jury comment to Morty was WAY OUT OF LINE..yup...no reason to get pissy over this subject..as my friend ring used to say..
"don't make me pull this car over"...*LOL*
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
Here are some excerpts from a letter I wrote to our city councillors re Breed Specific Legislation.
Valis, if any of my dogs even growled at a kid while it was eating the dog would be dead right now! Not moved to a ranch where it could harm other kids. By the way, I don't own pitbulls but a breed that is often confused with pitbulls and included in BSL. American Bulldogs have a lot of prey drive, but they are great with kids, and usually pretty good around other dogs if they are properly socialized.
Banning or restricting a specific breed will not keep children or adults from being injured by dogs that have not been properly trained it will merely change the type of dog that is kept by those who desire the protection of a guardian breed. As it is the owners who control the training and socialization of the puppies they purchase or adopt they are the ones responsible for those dogs that learn to bite people.
Neither Pitbulls or Rottweilers are dangerous dogs per se rather they are breeds that are popular not only with those devoted to them and their proper care but those who wish a macho image. Prior to this decade other dog breeds were in similar situations for example Dobermans, German Shepherds and ChowChows, all breeds that were victims of great popluarity and subsequent poor handling by less than competent owners bringing them an undeserved reputation as a 'dangerous' breed. Banning pitbulls will merely hasten the upswing in popularity of some other breed.
Controlling the people who will abuse the owner dog relationship through ignorance or otherwise is a far better and wiser solution to the problem these owners present to their neighbors no matter what breed of dog they own.
All dogs are dangerous under certain circumstances. Only when the owner or custodian of the animal does not properly train and confine his/her animal, does that animal pose a potential risk to human safety. A common ingredient to the dog personality is to guard and protect it's owner and property. ANY dog with that personality can become a problem for the public, if that dog is allowed to run loose and is not responsibly supervised. The key word here is responsibility (per Websters, definition of responsibility: Being legally or ethically accountable for the welfare or care of another.) To say certain breeds of dogs are dangerous is not a complete statement. All dogs can be dangerous if in the hands of an irresponsible owner.
The media and the inexperienced would have you believe that these breeds are vicious and should be prohibited. However, these very breeds as a whole have proven their stability and good canine citizenry by becoming Search & Rescue dogs, Therapy dogs working inside hospitals, professional Herding dogs and family companions for years.
A five year study published in the Cincinnati Law Review in 1982, vol. 53, pg 1077, which specifically considered both Rottweilers and "pit bulls", concluded in part that:
..statistics did not support the assertion that any one breed was dangerous, ..when legislation is focused on the type of dog it fails, because it is ... unenforceable, confusing, and costly. .. focusing legislation on dogs that are "vicious" distracts attention from the real problem, which is irresponsible owners. Why is any BSL law considered? Because of lack of education on the nature of dogs. Headlines scream "Rottweiler Kills Child!" "Pitbulls Maul Girl" "Friendly Bullmastiff attacks Neighbor", It seems that the dogs are going crazy, attacking without warning or provocation. This is not the truth, and the result of this misconception is unwarranted defamation of and bans on many breeds of dogs. While there may be individual dogs that are truly dangerous due to sickness, lack of proper socialization, or abuse, these dogs are by far in the minority, and are usually recognized as dangerous, so people avoid them or they are put to sleep. The dogs that hit the headlines are usually family pets. Why is this happening? One reason is that many fail to see dogs as dogs, but instead view them as "fur people" or "my baby". This is a dangerous way to think as it sets the scene for many a dog bite. Also many people are attracted to large powerful dogs that have strong prey drives. These dogs are capable of inflicting serious injury or even death if a communication breakdown occurs. Small dogs probably bite as much if not more often than big dogs, but, of course the damage is usually minor and no newspaper is going to carry that story. The danger comes in when we think of dogs as people, we start to assume that they will behave like people. Just watch some pups at play--they knock each other down, pull on each others ears, bite the face, neck, and legs, until one of them cries out in pain. Is this how human toddlers play? No way, one hit and everyone is in tears. Pups play roughly to establish dominance, and to learn life skills necessary for survival in the wild, which includes the ability to kill. Another way in which dogs and humans differ in behavior from dogs is eye contact. In humans, someone who won't meet your eye is not trusted, he is not being polite or social. To a dog, direct eye contact is a challenge, an invitation to bring it on! Submissive dogs will turn away from a direct glare, or even prostrate himself before the one staring. If a dominant dog sees this behavior, he will normally leave, but if the other dog continues to stare, a fight may ensue to determine who is dominant. Dogs interpret the human stare in the same way, averting his eyes from your stare because he views you as superior and doesn't want to challenge you. But that doesn't mean that he will view all humans as superior to him. An aggresive stranger,( Uncle Jim grabbing a screaming niece in a bear hug) or a small child at eye level, (children often stare in fear) may cause a different reaction. When you see a running person or someone zipping by on a bike, do you have the almost irrisitable urge to pursue and bite that person? Dogs have been programmed by nature to chase and catch fleeing prey. A small squeaking irractically running child can look a lot like prey to a dog not used to such sights. If someone is bitten by doing any of these things it might seem unprovoked from a human standpoint, but to the dog it makes perfect sense. He is simply acting on instinct.
Now let?s think about this rationally here. Would you leave your toddler or baby alone with a horse, even a miniature horse? How about a calf, cow, or a bull? Why not? Because these animals could unintentionally or intentionally maim or kill your child. Do you then think, "Those Arabian horses are too dangerous to have around! We should have a ban on Arabian horses." Or " Holsteins are more prone to kicking, we should have tight controls on them, as compared with Jerseys, who need no extra controls." That would be ludicrous to even contemplate. We accept the nature of the beast, and act accordingly.
The things we find undesirable in our pet dogs, such as growling, barking, biting, and fighting, are totally natural behaviors for dogs. For us to expect dogs to behave differently than their nature on their own is silly. Any dog can bite, and in certain situations all dogs will bite. All dogs should be viewed as potential biters, they all have the equipment.
So, what to do? Well if you don?t want your dog to defecate in the house what do you do? You house train him. The same with biting. You must actively train your dog not to bite. This involves working with your puppy early, handling him daily, all over his body. This means continuing anti bite training throughout his life, especially as he matures from adolescence into adulthood, around two to three years in large breeds.
But this is not enough. Our children are precious to us, and we enjoy our dogs company. For their sake we must also control the situations our dogs are exposed to. There are circumstances in which most dogs will bite. Since these can be hard to predict, especially when you factor in an unpredictable toddler, you control the toddler or you control the dog. If you are not present, you can not do either. It is a good practice to never, not even for a minute, leave babies or toddlers alone with any sized dog. A big dog can bite seriously with one quick snap. A little dog can hurt or kill an infant, and a toddler can injure a small dog.
When I have to answer the phone, go to the bathroom, or am otherwise distracted, I either put the dogs outdoors or into their crates, until I can fully attend them. Once when I was distracted, I caught my two-year-old poking a sharp pencil down my dog?s ear. The dog was trying to hide, fortunately he wasn?t harmed, and he didn?t harm my child. But had I not been there to control the situation and intervene on behalf of my dog, who knows what might have happened?
Even older children should be supervised when with dogs. I have seen 8-10 year old children chasing dogs with sticks and beating or poking them. Some dogs think this is great, but some dogs do not. Sometimes older children provoke a dog by taking food or toys and teasing the dog with them. Some times the dog bites by accident because he is trying to get the food or toy. A dog?s mouth is like our hands; he uses it to pick things up.
If it is at all possible, dogs should have as much supervised exposure to all ages of children when they are young as possible. Then they won?t be excited or surprised by the direct challenging stare at the dogs eye level, sudden, jerky, movements, the screaming without warning, the running, jumping, squealing, and general spontaneity of little ones.
If for some reason the dog has seldom come into contact with kids, then extreme caution is needed. If you are expecting kids to visit, ensure that you have the ability to control the situation. A crate, a leash, lots of praise for calm behavior, a few extra treats, and lots of supervision should help. If you are not up to this, then consider boarding the dog at a kennel. It is not worth the risk to have a child bitten and your dog euthanized.
Of course, all this would be a lot easier too, if your dog were obedience trained. The more positive training, the better the dog. Make him work for everything he gets. He sits for a pat. He lies down to greet new comers. He sit/stays before he gets his dinner. He knows the meaning of OUT when playing with you. If he doesn?t OUT what you are playing with, the fun stops. The toy is put away. Children are very vulnerable to dog attacks, as many of their behaviors such as screaming, running, and staring, are misinterpreted by dogs. Small children should NEVER be left alone with large dogs, no matter how much you trust that animal, and older kids should be taught how to interpret dog behavior and to how to behave around dogs. When selecting a dog as a pet, think about the history of the breed, how strong the dog is, and consider the potential seriously if something went wrong. Large dogs with strong prey drives should be owned by people with a good knowledge of dog behavior. Also essential is proper socialization with people and animals, and exposure to many different environments. I would like to emphasize that while dogs are fully able to live, work, and relate to people, they are still dogs. They are not human and will never act as we do. For the best relationship possible with our dogs it is essential that ALL dog owners recognize this fact and learn all they can about dog behavior. I propose that as part of the new bylaw, violaters must attend a course on responsible dog ownership including dog behavior and training. I also propose that no dog should run at large, no matter what the breed, unless in a designated area. Further, community volunteers such as myself, and anyone interested in responsible dog ownership, provide free classes on dog behavior and responsible dog ownership to all interested people. All dogs should be microchipped, and licensed. Most people are unaware that it is the LAW in BC that all dogs must be licensed and wear the license at all times. There should be a Zero tolerance of dog bites that occur due to lack of proper control and supervision of dogs. The dog should be euthanzied, and the individual fined heavily, charged with criminal neglect, and banned from owing a dog until completing a dog education course. These incidents should be handled on a case by case basis, not under a blanket breed ban which would not achieve your objective of protecting the public.
Valis, if any of my dogs even growled at a kid while it was eating the dog would be dead right now! Not moved to a ranch where it could harm other kids.
Dudette I know what you are saying...but I think he went to a place where he is far away from people, just the pack of dogs that watches cows...a much better place suited for part of his breed mix...akita/german sheppard...than in a home with children, which makes for a rather frenetic mix. I think back at my rage, but I think I probably would have not felt so good about killing him had I had a proper chance. My work at the SPCA and a general respect/love for animals from an early age probably makes me that way. Well, except for raccoons and cormorants....either of which can go away...
edited cuz I'm a stupid head...
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
Valis, its dudette, I just don't let any dogs that have temperament problems live, as I am uncomfortable with the risk. If you felt the risk was reduced, great, thats your responsibility. I love animals too, I was a vet tech for 7 years, and I do rescue work also.
But I am a realist and I value human life, and I think risks should be known and accepted or discounted, and for me, a dog who is kid aggessive is not placable. Unless lots of training and time is spent desensitizing the dog.
And Dan the Man, keep on blathering, the more you talk, the more you reveal how little you know and how unreasonable you are. Keep up the closed minded ignorance, guess you didn't leave it behind you when you left the dubs.
Bye the bye, I have GUARD DOG ON DUTY signs all over my yard and house, I have fenced runs and kennels, and dogs in the house, but a "sister" opened my front door the other day, despite the barking dogs, and signs, and put the latest magazines into my mudroom.
Had she let my dogs out and they had been killed on the road, that would be my fault for not locking my front door. Had the dogs bitten the intruder, that would be my fault for not locking my front door. Had she let my dogs out and they had killed all my neighbors sheep, that would be my fault for not locking my front door, and I would have to pay for the sheep and for new dogs, as the neighbor would have shot them.
Is there such a thing as illegal entry anymore? I think not.
*LOL* sorry about that Bulldog..I actually learned of his whereabouts much after the incident. And ya I felt where he was going would be no risk. He would have to go play w/the big dogs as it were. Sorry again for calling you dude...*LOL*
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
For those who are proponents for Pitbulls can you explain to me why there are bans on the dog itself in many countries and now soon here on military installations? Dogs such as Pitbulls and Rotties will no longer allowed to be on military bases, if you have one fine if you buy one you may not live on post with it. Is this just unreasonable fears, something like the panic that struck when Orson Well did War of the Worlds? Or perhaps there is something behind the fact that these dogs attack more than your average Lassie type dog?
Cassi
