We need solid advice from former Elders (page 2)

XQsThaiPoes

I dont have permission to give out his number. I can forward yours to him. I am sure he will call you asap may call you tonight. BTW were you from?

Appeals are really a facade. I have seen cases where they found out that the original committee did botch it up but held that the disfellowshipping should stand. If the person 'is truly repentant' they will takes the proper steps to be reinstated. Makes ya wanna hurl doesn't it?

The only successful avenue I have heard is to make it a legal matter. Get a GOOD lawyer. Have them write a letter demanding that their procedures be followed and that any announcement that tarnishes your name or reputation in the neighbourhood, friends or family will be viewed as slander.

It often causes the elders to back off while they await instructions. Usually the Society will advise that if you are not actively pursuing assosication to just let things go. It doesn't always work, depending on how vindictive the elders involved are but it has worked.

Best wishes to you. PM me if you need anything.

Uzzah

jst2laws

Pete,

I can fill you in on the process and your options as well as the likely hood of success if you appeal. But I will need a little more info. You need to call the elder and ask what evidence was presented to the committee, who the witnesses were and what specifice thing you did are said that constitutes apostasy. He will probably will want another elder on the phone before saying anything to you, and will probably tell you to appeal the decision and the info will come out in the appeal. This you need to refuse because the appeal committee's approach is completely different from a regular judicial committee. You may have to agree to meet with a few of the committee members just to get this info. Then pass it on to me and we can talk more specifically.

Remind them that you were once and elder and therefore you know they MUST stick to WT Society procedure or they will be in big trouble with the society as well as potential legal trouble if they make any announcement based on improper procedure. You will have to be willing to play hard ball with them if you have any chance at all in this matter.

If you do get a real meeting, probably only with an appeal committee, unless they have solid testimony from two witnesses you may prevail with the "doubts" card. Tell them you don't know anything for sure, you just have DOUBTS. Remind them that you should not be treated harshly for doubts. And whatever you said or emailed to another was not to propagate false teachings but only to specify what your doubt was that has caused your week faith.

Do not answer their questions. They will lead you to make statements that will constitute apostasy. Just say you would rather not express your self if you know they are baiting you. Keep going back to the original evidence that lead to the charges and make them prove it was more than doubts. You might even ask them to explain the matter to you so your doubts will go away. Shut up and listen, no rebuttal, and hope to get out with you butt.

I served on appeal committees since the mid 1980's up untill about 1997, near the end about one every two months. Drove me crazy. Your chances are slim but by what you describe so far the boys have already made some mistakes. The appeal committee must consider this.

Hope to here more from you.

Jst2laws

Narkissos

Pete,

I'm really sorry for that. I made an appeal myself when I was df'd and it was a total mockery: the two CO's who started the whole thing and organized the first hearing (yet stayed out of the first Committee) were on the appeal Committee to make sure the case would be properly handled.

I'm sure you received great advice, especially by Steve. Pointing out the technical mistakes (were you only summoned to the first hearing?), asking what the evidence really is, keeping a generally low profile ("doubts"), yet suggesting you're not going to accept that easily. Now a probably silly idea: why don't you ask for other people to be present at the hearing (I don't know if it is possible by the present rules)? Ideally I would ask to bring in a lawyer and a local journalist.

Good luck,

Didier

Room 215

I know this is enornously painful for you, and wouldn't dream of minimizing your distress; still, I feel confident that once you've had time to heal, you will likely conclude that these bozos did you a big favor, and that your father-in-law foolishly ``cut off his nose to spite his face" and will bitterly regret his betrayal of a confidence in time.

Puternut

Peacefulpete,

When they called you, did they at that time, inform you of your rights to an appeal? You have seven days from the time of your notification. We're you informed by phone, or certified letter, that there was a committee to be held with time and place?

If not in both instances, you have a better chance with the appeal committee. You have to inform them that their handeling of this case wasn't done appropriately. It makes their process weak, and the appeal committee will take that into consideration.

One concern I have, you mentioned that you haven't been to the Hall for a while. And have your doubts, these are things that both committees will use, to prove your absence and perhaps proof, that you are unwilling to be a full time member. And they will use that, to prove their point.

Even if you did your footwork, and homework to prove otherwise. The committees work closely together. And though the appeal committee will make the final decision, the original commitee will be present. After you are dismissed, they will discuss amongst themselves what course to take. But from experience, the original committee has a powerful influence over the appeals committee's decision. They are technically not to be influenced by the original committee, but it happens.

Here is what the appeals committee will look at. This is straight from the "Sheperds book": Was the accused repentant at the time of the hearing with the original committee.

The key is repentance. Can you prove that you are NOT an apostate? You merely want to be a witness, but are not 'active'. You need help, but aren't sure what to believe. IF you wanted to play their game, you might want to ask for a study. How you handle those would be up to you. But you could have a few, and fade again. Or move to another congregation, and get yourself lost in the shuffle.

The elders asking you, the insist on knowing the reason as to why you are not going, can be answered in many different ways. Be careful with doubts. Same goes for outside information regarding the Watchtower. Providing this evidence will not set well with them no matter how right you are.

So your choice will be either prove them wrong, and get df'd (no other way around it) OR play their game, and play yours.(remeber repentance)

Sincerely,

Puternut

confusedjw

Along with the previous advice if you get your appeal then you should tell them you didn't know you could get DF'd for having doubts. (It says in the Elders book to treat such ones that doubt with mercy)

and that you only sent the UN thing as it had stumbled you.

The tact to take is being stumbled by the UN and having Doubts. Does that make you apostate? No. Tell them of course you want and are trying to believe that the WT / FDS are God's channel. How can they help? Why didn't they help?

It's your only chance that I can see as a person who has sat on many JC.

ADDED: I know this doesn't help, but I'm really pissed off in your behalf. Jesus do they need to control our every thought and feeling. Peer into every depth of the soul to see if any "disloyalty" exits. Perhaps a little burning at the stake to make you see the err of your ways in doubting the FDS. This is nothing more than an Inquisition to rid the heretics. I am very sorry for you and scared that someday the same may happen to me.

RunningMan

The first thing that an appeal looks for is evidence of repentence. Guilt or innocence doesn't matter. If you are trying to convince them that you are not guilty, forget it. They are not a court of law and have no interest in justice. Their interest is simply in preservation of the organization.

The only way that an appeal can work is if the original is botched, and you are a very strong supporter of the organization, and the appeal elders don't like the original elders. I have never heard of an appeal working.

blondie

In the last 30 years, I have seen 2 JCs reversed by appeal committees. One because it was found that the person was not guilty of what they had been accused of and the second because the appeals committee felt the individual was repentant.

The 2 sets of elders in each situation still are cool to one another.....

Blondie

Yerusalyim

Send each of the Elders a letter announcing THEY have been DF'd.

We need solid advice from former Elders

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