JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES & Book BURNING (CDs TOO!)

by Smoldering Wick 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

qwerty

When my Mum and I first became Witnesses, my Mum got rid of one of my favourite LPs.....................
Miami Vice sound track...!!!!!!!!!!!!!. LOL
The reason was because it a the word "Vice" in the title!
Qwerty
Abaddon

Hey LT good to see ya around...
I do think you're excluding far too much from Dereks list based purely on presuppositions (I get paid for using that word).
SUch is the differenec between belief and science, but as I believe I'll miss the train taking me to see my kiddies if I don;t go now... bye!
funkyderek
Setting aside the possibility that she's making all this up (which IMHO would be an offensive accusation),

The only possibiliy I mentioned which could be offensive is that laurelin is deliberately lying. Now, for the record, I don't believe she is - even though I don't really know her except through a handful of posts she's made on this board. The other possibilities come down to her being mistaken. The event was years (maybe decades) ago, and she was a child when it happened. The likelihood of her being mistaken is very high. To me, that possibility - or even the possibility that she is being deliverately deceptive - is much more likely than the possibility that invisible monsters, undetectable to any measuring instrument, actually interacted with laurelin and her family.
I'd like to suggest that the list is more likely whittled down to:
6. Telekinesis, back to the power of the mind, huh?
7. Aliens, in this case higher technology perceived by a more unevolved creature to be "magic"
9. Ghosts / Spirits / Inter-dimensional creatures that may or may not also be #7 (or #10)
If the event had been recorded on video, these possibilities would perhaps be worth considering (after fraud had been ruled out). As it is, they're long shots.
- Telekinesis has never been observed under controlled conditions. There is no known mechanism by which it could occur.
- No aliens are known to exist. It seems unlikely, if they did, that they would use their vastly superior technology just to perform parlour tricks like moving a bowl around a room.
- Similarly no ghosts, spirits etc. are known to exist. If we have to postulate "inter-dimensional" creatures to explain an event like this, we should really make sure we've completely exhausted all the other possibilities
The lengths to which the unbelieving mind (note that I don't say "skeptical", which is another thing entirely) will go, never ceases to amaze me
I am unbelieving because I am skeptical. I did not have to go to extreme lengths to come up with other possibilites. I came up with ten possibilities off the top of my head. I provided several that were completely plausible, and would require no textbooks to be rewritten. You would reject these as "offensive" and would prefer to believe in any kind of invisible entity rather than consider the possibility that someone you've never met and probably know no better than I do, is lying or mistaken about an event that happened years or decades ago.
The eagerness of the believing mind to believe in anything that anybody says as long as it's unlikely, has long since ceased to amaze me, but I still find it fascinating.
GermanXJW

I remember as a child my parents made me trow away some autographs because it was worship of men.

Funkyderek, you wrote:
"Ghosts, goblins, ghouls, pixies, imps, elves and demons all lose their power the moment you stop believing in them."

I had two Hobgoblin in the pub and despite I did not believe in them they had some power. ;-)
LittleToe

Gyles:
Gotta love presuppositions, huh? The world is full of them
Hope you have (had, by the time you read this?) a great time with the kids.
Derek:
I am unbelieving because I am skeptical.
One does not necessarily lead to the other. I'm skeptical, but my mind suspends disbelief long enough to be open to other possibilities than merely those which are attested to in the science books
To assault a newbie poster with a list that's weighted towards totally discounting her anecdotal, but personal, evidence...
...well, I just attempted to put myself in her shoes, and feel that I'd probably be offended. Maybe I'm just projecting...
The eagerness of the believing mind to believe in anything that anybody says as long as it's unlikely, has long since ceased to amaze me, but I still find it fascinating
As long as it's unlikely?
In this particular case you have a firsthand eye-witness relating events that may be able to be supported by at least three other eye-witnesses, at close range.
Besides, a similar thing happened in Eman's pub, where a pillow magically manifested itself under your head, before you went crashing to the couch!
Oh, oops, that was Joy's breast, wasn't it
Maybe you're right, and there are physical reasons for everything - LOL
German:
LOL @ Hobgoblin
Insomniac

In Laurelin's defense, I, too observed some creepy stuff a number of years ago. My family lived in an old house that was occupied by some other entity. Was it a demon, telekinesis, a ghost, my brother playing tricks on me, or just the imagination of a twelve year old girl? I don't know. But I know that we humans don't know everything, no matter how much we like to think that we do. Whatever she experienced, it left a big impression on her, and I respect her for sharing it with us.
SixofNine

:::One does not necessarily lead to the other.

I don't know about that LT. I certainly predicted that your beliefs would be by now vastly changed a couple years ago. I even remember saying or thinking words to that effect. You don't believe most of what you used to, it appears to me.
Go in peace, your skepticism has made you well (*)
*please view upside down.
jgnat

Raging evangelicals can be as bad as the JW's. I am ashamed to say I gave away a complete collection of books by George Orwell,
Animal farm ; Burmese days ; A clergyman's daughter ; Coming up for air ; Keep the aspidistra flying ; Nineteen eighty-four by George Orwell
funkyderek

One does not necessarily lead to the other. I'm skeptical, but my mind suspends disbelief long enough to be open to other possibilities than merely those which are attested to in the science books.

But the skeptical mindset resists believing without sufficient evidence. Being open to other possibilities is one thing but if you suspend disbelief to the extent that you consider invisible aliens a more likely explanation than a childhood memory being inaccurate, then your definition of skeptical is very different to mine.
To assault a newbie poster with a list that's weighted towards totally discounting her anecdotal, but personal, evidence...
...well, I just attempted to put myself in her shoes, and feel that I'd probably be offended. Maybe I'm just projecting...
As usual, my intention was not to offend but to enlighten and to learn. The list was roughly weighted towards the most likely scenarios given the evidence available to me. Had there been other evidence available (for example videotape evidence) then the probabilities would shift.
As long as it's unlikely?
In this particular case you have a firsthand eye-witness relating events that may be able to be supported by at least three other eye-witnesses, at close range.
As far as you know, there are no other eye-witnesses. You're taking the word of someone you barely know; you're assuming that her recollection and interpretation of events is accurate, and you're giving supernatural explanations - any supernatural explanations - the same (or more) credence as natural ones.
Besides, a similar thing happened in Eman's pub, where a pillow magically manifested itself under your head, before you went crashing to the couch!
Oh, oops, that was Joy's breast, wasn't it
Maybe you're right, and there are physical reasons for everything - LOL
My recollection of events is that I was enjoying a quiet drink in the pub, exchanging the occasional bon mot, when suddenly everybody ganged up on me and conspired to put me in a taxi. I might still believe that if I had not heard a contradictory account from over a dozen people and seen photographic evidence.
My memory was affected by my state of mind at the time which was heavily influenced by severe sleep deprivation, lots and lots of alcohol and a funny-smelling cigarette.
LittleToe

Derek:Let me just supply you with the evidence that I had to go on.
I guess it wouldn't take much to ask for the experience to be qualified (eg. ages involved, exact number of eye-witnesses, whether or not a camera was present):
My brother (about five) would have conversations with the lady at the top of the stairs. It was put down to imagination till my dad saw her and then other stuff happened.
It seems to me that a healthy dose of skepticism was being applied, right up to the point where the Dad "saw" something too.
We were sat at tea when a bowl just up and floated out into the kitchen all by itself. Screaming habdabs all around (well us kids anyway)
Maybe I'm making an assumption that the parents were around the dinner table at the time, too (given it was teatime), but certainly kids (plural) were witnesses to the event.
I might be more likely to dismiss it if the bowl merely moved (earthquake??) but for it to "up and float" into another room...
I don't think a local tornado particularly works for me
The reason I'm more happy to give a 'super'natural explanation (if we assume for one moment that the evidence is factual) is that no known natural ones seem to fit the bill of inanimate objects just "up and float"ing away.
I'm not saying that I fully believe the occasion, but I'm suspending my disbelief until I get more information, rather than setting about destroying the notion.
My recollection of events is that I was enjoying a quiet drink in the pub, exchanging the occasional bon mot, ... when suddenly everybody ganged up on me and conspired to put me in a taxi.
I've added elipses because they accurately represent the holes in your memory
My memory was affected by my state of mind at the time which was heavily influenced by severe sleep deprivation, lots and lots of alcohol and a funny-smelling cigarette.
Excuses, excuses. It's only because you have the luck of the Irish that you were able to walk straight the next morning. Valis and Gadget were looking at you hungrily, so we bundled you into said taxi, quickly, for the sake of your rear!!!
I've not yet had a chance to post about my impressions of everyone at the Fest, but I have to tell ya that without any disrespect intended to anyone else, you're the "new-face" that I most enjoyed meeting. You're a fun guy
I suspect I'll never forget your "reunion of a long lost son" comment, for as long as I live - ROFLMAO.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES & Book BURNING (CDs TOO!)

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