Proof Please! (page 2)

Yerusalyim

FARKEL and Francoise,
As to the Lazarus issue, there is a town in Israel/Palestine that even the Muslims call Lazarus, it is the town where our dear friend Lazarus was ressurected. As to why it's not mentioned in historical records, hmmm, lets see, perhaps it was due to the fact that the scribes were oppossed to the ministry of Jesus and weren't going to give him any free press as it were.

As to Jesus being an actual historical person, I've never read any serious historian who doubts that Jesus actually lived.

Aside from Josephus, Philo, Tacitus and a few others mention him. an Edict from the Emperor Claudius in the AD 40's evicts all Jews from the city of Rome in connection with a certain Chrestus (a corrupted for of CHRIST). There are also 8 or more seperate contemporaries who write about Jesus at seperate times and locations who we read in the bible, and innummerable writings from the 1st Century about Jesus that didn't make it in the bible. There is as much historical evidence for Jesus as there is for Gaius Marius, or most other figures from Roman History (including Ceasar Augustus). Even the Jewish Talmud attests the the fact that Jesus existed. Nope, I've never read a serious historian that casts doubts as to the existence of Jesus, only on whether or not he was anything more than a marginal Jew.

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
God is truth, and light his shadow.

Plato

Kent

Yerusalym, Rex alleged that there were mountains of information about Jesus being resurrected. That's the question Francoise challenged him on - and the question this "Rex" will never answer.

There isn't a question if anyone named Jesus has ever lived. The burden of evidence is on Rex - or any other fool that will agree with his insane statement - to show us this "mountains of evidence".

So far we haven't seen a rock, not a small stone, no gravel or even sand. Not even DUST has been shoved us.

So, mr. Rex. You can come on showing your cards - or shut up and stop posting utter crap.

Yakki Da

Kent

"The only difference between God and Adolf Hitler is that God is more proficient at genocide."

Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://watchtower.observer.org

Yerusalyim

The Resurrection is ENTIRELY a matter of Faith, that is why He only appeared to the faithful. Still, some scholars reason that the apostles did experience SOMETHING out of the ordinary, their lives were changed by what they experienced, and all but one died for that belief. I choose to believe in the resurrection, and have been given faith in it. But no, there is NO PROOF outside of faith for it.

YERUSALYIM
God is truth, and light his shadow.

Plato

open_mind

Still, some scholars reason that the apostles did experience SOMETHING out of the ordinary, their lives were changed by what they experienced, and all but one died for that belief.

Again......same question.......what scholars?

Francois

Well, we're not discussing faith. And I refuse to have the subject changed. Rex said he had proof of the resurrection. And I want to see it. End of report.

You can point to as many vague references by historians as you like. There are millions of people just south of the border named Jesus this very day. But that's still not the point of Rex claim is it?

You can have all the faith you want. I have it too. But let's stick to the point of the challenge.

What I want to know is where is Rex?

Francois

"All but one died..." What are you claiming here?

Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.

Kent

Still, some scholars reason that the apostles did experience SOMETHING out of the ordinary, their lives were changed by what they experienced, and all but one died for that belief.

Damn! That's interesting. Could you please send me the phone number and e-mail addres to the apostle still living? I sure do have some questions for him!

Yakki Da

Kent

"The only difference between God and Adolf Hitler is that God is more proficient at genocide."

Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://watchtower.observer.org

Yerusalyim

One Scholar, Ray Brown, Look em up. Other's too, but he is the first to come to mind.

YERUSALYIM
God is truth, and light his shadow.

Plato

Okidok

One of many theories about Jesus and what realy happend, is that he survived the crucifixion. After a convalescence period of 50 days or so, he appeared. The basis of his resurrection was founded.
Then Jesus, Maria Magdalene, Josef of Arimatea and some close friend, went on a trip to France...They settled down in a place called Rennes-le-Chateau..
He got a lot of kids with Maria Magdalena and they lived happily ever after..
Its true,,,,,,somebody says

What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists? In that case, I definitely overpaid for my carpet.
Woody Allen

Yerusalyim

Okidok,

Yep, that's one theory, another is that he was taken away by SPACE ALIENS. Tell me this, would YOU give your life for some guy living in France?

YERUSALYIM
God is truth, and light his shadow.

Plato

CPiolo

Francoise:

I don't know where Rex said that there was mountains of evidence for a historical Jesus, but Amazing said something to that effect as well a week or so ago in a thread that Uncle Onion started. He quoted James Penton as saying the evidence was strong for a historical Jesus. From what I've read, the extra-biblical evidence is scanty. At the time, I asked Amazing or someone else to provide sources for evidence of a historical Jesus and/or rebuttal to what I see as an enormous silence by other contemporary or near-contemporary non-Christian writers. I provided the following link regarding this silence:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/rmsbrg02.htm

No one responded to my request. I saw this thread and still no one is able to provide much evidence for a historical Jesus. But the silence of his contemporaries speaks volumes to me.

I am aware that many books have been written about the historical Jesus. Maybe someone could provide some suggestions.

Ginny Tosken has also posted several interesting things about the Jesus Seminar and their research. One of their books, that I've only had time to skim, "The Five Gospels," through a poll of religious scholars from around the world, came to the conclusion that Jesus did not say 80% or more of what has been attributed to him in the Gospels. This was a poll result and there was no consensus about this among the various scholars, but the book describes their process and how they came to their conclusions. It also lists the scholars polled.

If one eliminates 80% of what Jesus is supposed to have said from the Gospels and combines that with the deafening silence of Jesus' non-Christian contemporaries and near-contemproraries, one is not left with much.

Of course, based upon faith, one can believe what they choose. But when one claims there is empirical evidence for their faith, they should be able to back that up. If not, they shouldn't make the claim in the first place.

CPiolo

The worst vice of the fanatic is his sincerity. -- Oscar Wilde

Proof Please!

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