LIGHTNING BOLT from Gawd! Paul's turnaround?

by Terry 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Robdar
    Robdar

    As somebody who has temporal lobe seizures, I can see the possibility that maybe Paul was an epileptic. There is also evidence that the prophet Mohammad suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy.

    I, and others, have noticed a connection between spiritual experiences and the disease. Other than the complications, I have always told my doctors that temporal lobe epilepsy is an incredible experience. As crazy as it sounds, I almost feel blessed to have my seizures.

    A simple engine search reveals all sorts of material. From just one web site, I found the following:

    http://www.science-spirit.org/articles/Articledetail.cfm?article_ID=130 :

    Fear and Trembling

    Has TLE changed the course of civilization? LaPlante and many other TLE experts speculate that the mystical religious experiences of some of the great prophets were induced by TLE ? because the historical writings describe classic TLE symptoms. The religious prophets most often thought to have had epilepsy are Mohammad, Moses, and St. Paul. Dostoevsky, another famous epileptic whose works are filled with ecstatic visions of universal love (and terrible nightmares of uncanny fear and radical evil), thought it was obvious that Mohammad?s visions of God were triggered by epilepsy. "Mohammad assures us in this Koran that he had seen Paradise," Doestevsky notes. "He did not lie. He had indeed been in Paradise ? during an attack of epilepsy, from which he suffered, as I do."

    When Mohammad first had his visions of God, he felt oppressed, smothered, as if his breath were being squeezed from his chest. Later he heard a voice calling his name, but when he turned to find the source of the voice, no one was there. The local Christians, Jews, and Arabs called him insane. When he was five years old, he told his foster parents, "Two men in white raiment came and threw me down and opened up my belly and searched inside for I don?t know what." This description is startling similar to the alien abduction experience described by people with TLE.

    Note that the overriding emotion experienced by Mohammed, Moses and St. Paul during their religious visions was not one of rapture and joy but rather of fear. When Moses heard the voice of God from a burning bush, he hid his face and was frightened. Luke and Paul both agreed that Paul suffered from an unknown "illness" or "bodily weakness" which he called his "thorn in the flesh." Many biblical commentators have attributed this to either migraine headaches or epilepsy. Paul did once have malaria, which involves a high fever that can damage the brain. Other psychologists have noted that likely TLE sufferers such as Moses, Flaubert, Saint Paul, and Dostevesky were also famous for their rages.

    However, psychologist William James has argued that religious states are not less profound simply because they can be induced by mental anomalies:

    "Even more perhaps than other kinds of genius, religious leaders have been subject to abnormal psychical visitations. Invariably they have been creatures of exalted emotional sensitivity liable to obsessions and fixed ideas; and frequently they have fallen into trances, heard voices, seen visions, and presented all sorts of peculiarities which are ordinarily classed as pathological. Often, moreover, these pathological features have helped to give them their religious authority and influence. To plead the organic causation of a religious state of mind in refutation of its claim to possess superior spiritual value is quite illogical and arbitrary. [Because if that were the case], none of our thoughts and feelings, not even our scientific doctrines, not even our dis-beliefs, could retain any value as revelations of the truth, for every one of them without exception flows from the state of the possessor?s body at the time. Saint Paul certainly once had an epileptoid, if not an epileptic, seizure, but there is not a single one of our states of mind, high or low, healthy or morbid, that has not some organic processes as its condition."

    Robyn

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    "You should go to a doctor."

    "I know I am not well, without your telling me, though I don't know what's wrong; I believe I am five times as strong as you are. I didn't ask you whether you believe that ghosts are seen, but whether you believe that they exist."

    "No, I won't believe it!" Raskolnikov cried, with positive anger.

    "What do people generally say?" muttered Svidrigailov, as though speaking to himself, looking aside and bowing his head: "They say, 'You are ill, so what appears to you is only unreal fantasy.' But that's not strictly logical. I agree that ghosts only appear to the sick, but that only proves that they are unable to appear except to the sick, not that they don't exist."

    "Nothing of the sort," Raskolnikov insisted irritably.

    "No? You don't think so?" Svidrigailov went on, looking at him deliberately. "But what do you say to this argument (help me with it): ghosts are as it were shreds and fragments of other worlds, the beginning of them. A man in health has, of course, no reason to see them, because he is above all a man of this earth and is bound for the sake of completeness and order to live only in this life. But as soon as one is ill, as soon as the normal earthly order of the organism is broken, one begins to realise the possibility of another world; and the more seriously ill one is, the closer becomes one's contact with that other world, so that as soon as the man dies he steps straight into that world. I thought of that long ago. If you believe in a future life, you could believe in that, too."

    "I don't believe in a future life," said Raskolnikov.

    Svidrigailov sat lost in thought.

    "And what if there are only spiders there, or something of that sort," he said suddenly.

    "He is a madman," thought Raskolnikov.

    "We always imagine eternity as something beyond our conception, something vast, vast! But why must it be vast? Instead of all that, what if it's one little room, like a bathhouse in the country, black and grimy and spiders in every corner, and that's all eternity is? I sometimes fancy it like that."

    "Can it be you can imagine nothing juster and more comforting than that?" Raskolnikov cried, with a feeling of anguish.

    "Juster? And how can we tell, perhaps that is just, and do you know it's what I would certainly have made it," answered Svidrigailov, with a vague smile.

    (Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment)

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Interesting, especially the possibility of seizure.

    How about this:

    As Biblically portrayed, Paul was a man of deep convictions, and showed no small amount of devotion to those convictions, to the point of willingly participating in the execution of fellow human beings. His Pharisaical upbringing gave him a religious justification for those actions, but most humans innately refrain from murder, even feeling bad about killing an animal when we accidentally run over them with our cars (or horse and cart, as the case may be).

    So maybe Paul's conscience, perhaps even if only on a subconscious level, began to bother him to the point that he reached a critical point of internal conflict, and he more or less literally "flipped out." Physical manifestations ("seeing things"; having what is felt, and described as, an epiphany, etc) of such psychological strains are rather more the norm than the exception.

    Furthermore, Paul's subsequent actions as a "Christian" are presented, even by himself, as being somewhat of a self-purgative process, combined with a continued sense of guilt (even though supposedly saved by the ransom), which might suggest that he was deeply into self-expiation (by works), as a compensation reaction.

    The comparisons to JW behavior are remarkable, especially with Rutherford.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Narkissos

    DOSTOYEVSKY looked for god by looking at evil. If evil were real; god must be real.

    It is an odd equation, no?

    William Peter Blatty (writer of The Exorcist) agreed with Dostoyevsky. He posited that, if one could prove the existence of the Devil, automatically the balance to the equation would be God!

    Faith is a most remarkable invention. Faith shouts at the Universe:

    IT IS TRUE BECAUSE I INSIST!

    A desperate man must needs shout in this manner.

    What I need; I must have! I need God; I must have him

    I cannot prove the God I need is there; so, I will create a linkage between what is and what MUST be.

    This is the beginning of the journey. A man writes his own map.

    A dull man needs no proof. A genius must build it.

    When the Jews returned from Babylonian exile to Jerusalem they were a ragtag and dismal assembly. The deck of self-belief had been shuffled. What did it all mean? What story was true? Who was right? How do we continue without one path?

    Out of that need for___something___to weld the disparate desperate mob into a nation came the solution. What was needed was...................."found". Seemingly out of nowhere, a most convenient copy of the LAW was discovered! Just in the nick of time! It rescued the ethnic and unruly refugees into a perfect picture; an ideal of what their "history" and their "law" told them to be: GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE.

    When Jesus was executed the followers of this Messianic hope were left with only paths to take.

    1.Give it up

    2.Discover exactly what was needed to go on.

    Just in the nick of time word spread that Jesus had risen from the dead!

    When the world at large (pagan and Roman) put its collective heel on the neck of this band of Messianic idealists the broad shadow of extinction loomed large. What could save this Jesus-belief from the abyss?

    Just in the nick of time Paul arrives and explains everything; it all fits together. The law and the prophets warned us this would happen; Jesus had to die, you see.

    In 1914 the Jesus predictions of a band of true-believer adventists were on the brink of humiliating extinction. What would save them from a headlong plunge over the edge?

    Just in the nick of time an INVISIBLE 2nd coming doctrine was "revealed" to the very ones who needed it.

    What is my point? People invent their cause; they create their crisis; they discover their means of rescue---all with improbable regularity. Is there any difference in what a novelist does in plotting?

    Dostoyevsky, William Peter Blatty, Ezra, the apostles, Paul and C.T.Russell have more in common than they would ever have imagined.

  • outoftheorg
    outoftheorg

    WELL LT, I CAN'T SAY AS I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT. THAT WAS A PRETTY DEEP AND IMPORTANT QUESTION.

    I WILL HAVE TO THINK ON THIS FOR A WHILE. MAYBE GO BACK TO SOME ANCIENT QUOTES TO SEE IF I CAN FIND AN ANSWER THERE.

    DAMN, YOU KNOW NOW THAT YOU ARE REALLY STRESSING THIS LITTLE BRAIN OF MINE.

    Outoftheorg

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Terry,

    I think we (and this includes Jesus, Paul or Dostoevsky) are still struggling with the apories of monotheism.

    Monotheism emerges as a Jewish acclimatation of Persian dualism in the 6th century BC. At first proclaimed over against dualism (I form light and create darkness,
    I make weal and create woe,
    Isaiah 45:7), it soon falls back into dualism: the devil clings to God's footsteps, inasmuch as God is irresistibly attracted to the bright side...

    We cannot get rid of evil without getting rid of the "good God" at the same time. That is, without a spirituality overcoming dualism. I guess the Svidrigailov character, as Ivan Karamazov, tells us more about Dostoevsky's insights in that direction than the usual, Christian, conclusions of his books.

  • Golf
    Golf

    Why not ask golfers who have been struck by lightning think and feel?

    The now senior professional Lee Trevino was once struck by lightning and it made an impact on him.

    Guest 77

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Btw, Martin Luther is known to have been struck by lightning (not while playing golf, I guess) before he decided to become a monk...

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