by Terry 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
No Apologies
You must have rocks in your head if you think that there is abundant evidence for the suggested dates of 586/587 for the Fall of Jerusalem. The date of 607 for this event is baserd upon solid biblical and secular evidence and I suggest that you examine carefully the information contained in the Appendix in the publication concerning the Kingdom.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
scholarBA MA Studies in Religion
O, scholar, o wise one!
Pole
BA MA + half way through PhD ! in Computational Linguistics
EDITED TO ADD AN EXCLAMATION MARK
EDITED AGAIN TO BOLDEN AND UNDERLINE PhD
Scholar
I would be very interested in having you present your best, straightforward elucidation of the facts/data which have convinced you that 607 b.c.e. is the date to be preferred over the 587/586 b.c.e. that we Ex-Witless people find so compelling.
You are obviously not an uneducated person. I doubt you are dishonest. I'm sure you've considered other arguments both pro and con. I can only conclude you see something the rest of us have missed. I, for one, would honestly like to have it laid out for me so that I too may consider the evidence.
If I am wrong I am willing to change my mind. Any intellectually honest person is compelled to have that attitude. The evidence should speak for itself. In a court of law it is the preponderance of evidence which convicts.
Will you accept my invitation to explain this for me and the others?
Thank you!
I am with you Terry. I would like to see the evidence as well.
Tor
Toreador,
A possible additionaly item for your list, Terry, is that in the JW interpretation, the "greater" fulfillment of the "prophecy" actually begins before the prophecy has even been given.
Please explain that comment please.The JW's believe the greater fulfillment of the Dream of the Tree began in 607 BC when Jehovah allowed the "tree" of Davidic kingship to be cut down. 607 BC was well before Nebuchadnezzar had even had the dream and well before Belteshazzar had interpreted it. Therefore in the JW interpretation, the prophetic fulfillment actually starts before the prophecy is given.
Scholar
Nice personal attack there. A sure sign of someone who can't defend his point of view with facts.
There is no secular evidence supporting 607 and you know this. The Society knows this and acknowledges it in the appendix, as i pointed out above.
No Apologies
BS, Computer Information Systems
Something not mentioned with regards to the Gentile Times chronology is what Charles T. Russell said as early as 1876:
"...The seven times will end in A.D. 1914..." - Gentile Times: When do They End?, Bible Examiner, Oct 1876, p. 27
Now Russell taught the "last days" began in 1799 and the WTS teaches that they began in 1914, but BOTH Russell and today's WTS teach that the Times of the Gentiles ended in 1914, based upon Daniel's prophecy.
What's the problem with that? The problem is that Russell put forth a teaching in 1876 (that is still taught today), that in effect, "unsealed" the book of Daniel. Yet, the author of Daniel said that book could not be unsealed until the "time of the end," which began a full 38 years AFTER Russell unsealed the werewolf "prophecy."
This means that IF Russell unsealed Daniel 38 years before the book COULD be unsealed, then the statement in Daniel about its unsealing is a lie.
Or, Russell didn't "unseal" shit.
Given the history of the WT movement, which possibility do you think is most likely?
Farkel
Terry and No Apologies
I have studied the subject of chronology since the early seventies, have read widely on chronology and have made myself aware of journal articles on the subject. In short, I am on top of this subject and have not been hoodwinked or brainwashed by Thiele, Jonsson, SDA scholars or higher critics. Posters on this board only are critical of WTchronology because of the influence of the Jonsson hypothesis and his GTR, none of these poeople have contributed a single personal viewpoint as to exegesis, theology or on methodology. Also, such people have not demonstrated or articulated a understanding of how chronology works or the schema for WT chronology.
WT chronology is based on sound secular and biblical evidence and I have mentioned three basic facts or principles on tis board frequently and these are as follows:
1. Pivotal date 539 established secularly and biblically
2. Period of seventy years of desolation and servitude established biblically and secularly
3. Release of exiles under Cyrus's Decree in 537 established biblically and secularly.
Such historical and biblical facts establishes incontrovertibly that the calcuable date of 607 is the only rational candidate for the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 thus the spirit directed FDS has once again proven themselves correct.
scholar
BA MA Studies in Religion
"scholar",
I noticed you made no challenge to my thread on this subject. My evidence is so easy to understand, there is almost a fifty-fifty chance you might understand it:
587 BC For Total Dunderheads
Farkel
Scholar, do you count your time when you post? (This is a serious question.)
