THE WEAKEST LINK---fatal flaws in Watchtower Chronology

by Terry 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Oxnard Hamster
    Oxnard Hamster
    BA, MA, Phd, ScD, MD, DO, DVM, JD, from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Dartmouth, UC Berkely, UCLA, USCD, William and Marys, Julliard, Cambridge, and Hooked on Phonics.

    Hooked on Phonics worked for you Farkel!

    Anyway scholar, you claim the 607 is widely accepted, but by whom? Obviously, it's not accepted around these parts. If you're going to cop out and demand that we do the research to support YOUR contentions, then you've come to the wrong place.

    Yeah, I know this has all been said before, but I'm drunk and I had to say my two cents worth.

    BA in Beer Drinking, Video Games, Anime, Hootinanny, Shennangans, and All Around General Mayhem. *Burp*

  • Monski
    Monski

    You all have wonderful explanations of all this stuff found in the book of Daniel. Makes great reading. I just wonder why someone closer to recent times hasn't been inspired by god to write a modern bible that everyone can understand. Surely that would be a sensible way to "get the message across". Why doesn't Daniel be re-written to say:

    "The Gentile times will end in A.D 1914 and the "end " will come within about 100 years of then." Or is that too easy?

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech

    J.F. Rutherford would have done that if he could have had 30 or so more years of health

    Unfortunately he finished his life drinking in Beth Sarim

  • jws
    jws
    The JW's believe the greater fulfillment of the Dream of the Tree began in 607 BC when Jehovah allowed the "tree" of Davidic kingship to be cut down. 607 BC was well before Nebuchadnezzar had even had the dream and well before Belteshazzar had interpreted it. Therefore in the JW interpretation, the prophetic fulfillment actually starts before the prophecy is given.

    OK, this post is getting old, but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in anyway... As for the dream happening before the fall of Babylon, how do we know that? It's probably very simple. I just don't have a Bible with me at the moment. We know there was more than one deportation to Babylon. Could Daniel have been carried away in one of the earlier ones before the final destruction? And if he was, could this prophecy have been fulfilled before the destruction of Jerusalem. You might say there was no 7 year time period that Nebuchadnezzar was missing-in-action before the destruction of Jerusalem, but then again nobody said it was 7 years. Could have been 7 days or 7 months. To me, the more important weak link with this "greater fulfillment" thing is that Nebuchadnezzar was king of Babylon. The same Babylon that came to represent all kinds of false worship. His being stripped of his kingship for 7 times is supposed to foreshadow God's rule being stripped from the earth for 7 prophetic times. The JWs call Jesus the "greater Abraham". Do they call God or God's rule the "greater Nebuchadnezzar"? I don't think so. Why? Because in JW terms, Nebuchadnezzar represents the other side of the coin, the opposite of the Jews. You're going to tell me this guy foreshadows God's kingdom? And as for 7 years, I know the current Jewish calendar has 12 30-day months and every 5 or 6 years, they throw in a 13th 30-day month to balance things out for the missing 5.25 days. So, if Nebuchadnezzar was missing-in-action for 7 years, by the Jewish calendar, those years had to include 1, if not 2 390 day years. So now, instead of 7 * 360 = 2520, we have an extra 30 or 60 days. So, even **IF** 607 were right, the extra 30 or 60 days would land you in 1944 or 1974. Further weak points. You're going to tell me that Nebuchadnezzar went crazy for 7 years, then all of a sudden he's better and the person that took over in his absense is going to let him come right back in and rule the nation? 7 years of being crazy is a LONG time. That's like pulling Charles Manson out of prison and giving him a presidential cabinet position. What interim leader is going to step aside? On the other hand, what if the 7 times were months? That might give people more confidence that he's going to be OK. What if he was only gone 7 days? The shorter the time period, the more people are going to trust him to lead again. OK, you say God placed him back. It doesn't matter whether his interim leader wanted to step aside or not. God grants power to who he wishes and takes it away from who he wishes. OK, but I thought the whole world was ruled by Satan. JW logic says how could Satan offer all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus unless he controls them? How can he control the nations if God is the one who grants power and takes it away?

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech

    Here we go again: Just like God played puppet master with Pharoah.... he's doing it again with

    old Nebuc..

    What's happening to free will?

    Can someone tell me? JW's have been teaching me this since I was born?

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Terry, The ONLY link the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation has to 1914 is their claim that Charles Russell predicted the right events for the right date.

    IF Jesus returned in 1914, and IF the Gentile times ended in 1914, has no relevance to the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation, IF they did not predict it correctly beforehand.

    Their claim to authority is confusing. They claim they were "appointed" in 1919, yet their most important claim to credibility occurs before 1914, actually before 1879.

    IF Charles Russell did not predict the INVISIBLE return of Jesus, and the INVISIBLE setting up of his government in 1914, and the INVISIBLE end of the Gentile times, then the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation has no more claim to the news than anybody else.

    What one real thing did they ever exclusively predict that actually happened? GaryB


  • Terry
    Terry

    More and more it becomes obvious that JW's are not JW's for __reasons__stemming from the Bible at all. JW's are JW's stemming from the fact they like having a "contemporary" link (read:Governing Body) interpreting for them. It is past making "sense" because it does not need to. It becomes about "obedience" to the GB.

    A newbie at a door called upon by a JW can get away with asking these kinds of questions only so long as the newbie doesn't argue too much. After all, JW's are after people who can be persuaded. So-called Ministry School skills are just a razzle-dazzle dance. It keeps the sheep bleeting a common tune.

    It is all for show. The "interpretations" of scripture are flat-earth theories that appeal to a certain mentality. People who enjoy being different, oddball, and who get off being on the receiving end of scorn buy in.

    What does that say about me that I bought in?

  • aniron
    aniron

    Didn't Russell predict that Jesus would return in 1874 and that Armageddon would be finished by 1914.

    It wasn't until years after 1914 that they took that date for Jesus return.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    aniron, I beleive you may be right. If you are, what claim do current Jehovah's Witnesses have to 1914?

    How do they "prove" something "invisible" actually happened?

  • Terry
    Terry
    How do they "prove" something "invisible" actually happened?

    I think this is a case of simply repeating the same thing so many times over so many years that it gradually becomes a trope that is accepted has "having been proved".

    I remember a Watchtower magazines study we had once at the Kingdom Hall that was nothing by quotation from various authors and sources reinforcing the singularity of 1914 events.

    The way the article was assembled it looked like overwhelming corroboration.

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