by ezekiel3 60 Replies latest watchtower bible
In the end, maybe God doesn't even know we're here...
Finally a comment that makes sense of all this.
I think, most days anyway, this is the most likely scenario. If he cared he would do something about the mayhem so long running in this world we live in. If there is a God he musta found new toys to play with and has long forgotten about us.
IF he had the forknowledge to know we would screw up this bad he should a made our makeup a little different.
Tor
Well some of the posts up top were to lengthy to read this time of night, so I may be saying something that has already been said, I may back up tomorrow and read a couple of them, but my $0.02 worth is:
PREDESTINATION is a fact: God knows the whole picture. God could adjust the course of history, but would understand exactly what would happen then too.
If GOD knows the whole picture and can know how man or other creatures will act or react to given situations he therefore did a catch 22 on Adam and Eve, Plus he knew about Satan long before Satan turned evil and therefore could have avoided the entire situation by not doing any of it.
FREE-WILL is academic because God can ?fast-forward? to see your choices.
Free will is academic, I do agree, mostly because in the christian mindset Freewill is not freewill, you either are a follower or your going to hell, in the case of the Jdubs your bird food.
PERMISSION OF EVIL is non sequitur because God foresaw that result when God created the opportunity of evil (Satan, etc.)
God himself said he created evil, he created all things so therefore evil was created by god and it pretty much shows in the OT
GOD AS JUDGE: Not if all of creation has been ?framed?! Why resurrect those who will be destroyed at the end of the 1000-year reign if God could fast-forward to see who was faithful?
Who knows, how can god judge anyone if he already knows, Hmmm perhaps refer to the first item.
Seedy
ezekiel3,
God is IN the future, as well as the past, AT THE SAME ?TIME?.
I would like to jump in. You said perhaps, that in the beginning God created time by creating Jesus. How about, with foreknowledge, He was aware that He would need a means by which man could be reunited with Him, and he came down Himself in the mode of Jesus, the Son, to bring more people(the Jew first and then the Gentile)into reunion with Him. In that way the scriptures would prove to be cohesive in their statement that Jesus, the Son is from everlasting and has no beginning or end.
michelle
I would like to jump in. You said perhaps, that in the beginning God created time by creating Jesus. How about, with foreknowledge, He was aware that He would need a means by which man could be reunited with Him, and he came down Himself in the mode of Jesus, the Son, to bring more people(the Jew first and then the Gentile)into reunion with Him.
1.IF that was the case God sure picked a screwy long winded way of reconciling man back to himself. Why put man in physical form anyway? why not make them spirits like the other angels. God must have wanted suffering and pain and death for humans. After all he had foreknowledge.
2. why show favoritism to the Jew first? Why have the Jews kill all those good for nothing gentiles for 4000 years and take their virgins for themselves to play with?
myelaine,
You said that basically, God had himself killed! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
: How about, with foreknowledge, He was aware that He would need a means by which man could be reunited with Him, and he came down Himself in the mode of Jesus, the Son, to bring more people(the Jew first and then the Gentile)into reunion with Him.
"Reuinted with man by being a God who is also a human martyr killed by his very own creation." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
What a pile of crap. What kind of wacko, stupid God do you worship, anyway?
Farkel
You said that basically, God had himself killed!
: How about, with foreknowledge, He was aware that He would need a means by which man could be reunited with Him, and he came down Himself in the mode of Jesus, the Son, to bring more people(the Jew first and then the Gentile)into reunion with Him.
"Reuinted with man by being a God who is also a human martyr killed by his very own creation."
Farkel,
Jesus was killed by God's creation(in a physical sense) but Jesus did say that the Father was still in heaven, was greater than himself etc. and also Jesus was resurrected(in a physical sense) in order that we might be reunited with God( in a spiritual sense.)
I worship a God that would die for me (in a physical sense), and He hopes that, if need be, I would die for Him (in a physical sense), with complete knowledge that I would be reunited with Him (in the spiritual sense.)
michelle
To put it another way
1) The world is like 2 x 3 = 6. In other words the world is totally cause and effect. If you had the computational power you could predict everything hence no free will. I think this is the theory of determinism
2) The world is like 2 x a = b. In other words the answer to ?b? is not able to be worked out until ?a? is known by perhaps the passing of time and events happening hence the possibility of free will
3) Same as 1) but God started it. I think this is the model that Calvin proposed
4) Same as 3) but God doesn?t work out the sum to give the illusion of free will. This is what JW?s teach
5) The same as 2) but God started it. This was the idea I proposed in my letter.
zoolander,
Does the context of this scripture suggest that Jesus was discussing the fundamental design of the universe or was he discussing Jehovah?s ability to save people compared to man?s inability
I believe that Jesus was discussing both. We might have infinite abilities of foresight but there seems to be somethibng blocking our sight or our way. That is our "ego" for lack of a better word. With God (Pride in God,as your Father) and His purpose for your life in front of you, your ability to see where you are going will be greatly increased. You will be able to see where you are, right now in this system. Many people don't know their purpose. We are told we are here to glorify God in everything we do, because we are all sinners. Matthew 9:24
Zec.8:6
The Lord was speaking to a people (the Hebew) that didn't need to be convinced there was GOD. God does have infinite foreknowledge. The very fact that He has the ability to judge your heart at His pleasure shows that He is very up to the second for us, but He WAS back then. Still knowing, still causing.
If God has the ability to judge our hearts He has the ability to judge the earth. He will have infinite foreknowledge on that day as well because He knows how it all ends... we only get a glimpse of what's happening next in our "life" with God. (Rev.)
Isaiah 63:16 ....Our Redeemer from Everlasting is Your name
With cause and effect:
If someone (good or evil) or(+) something(good or evil) caused = the effect would be predetermined good or bad
If someone (goodor evil) or something(good or evil) caused an effect ...=.. that would be predestination and therefore everything would be predetermined.
Jude 4. Jude 10. Jude 18
If you know someOne, you don't have to be "convinced" there is GOD. You might say...Pro.14:12
Is it marvelous in Gods eyes? The beauty of children laughing = good
The ugliness that was predetermined = bad
We have a foreknowledge of how this is going to play out in the Bible. Without this "tool of foreknowledge" we wouldn't have any idea what might happen tomorrow, let alone in the time of the end.....We don't know the time of the end, but God has infinite foreknowledge.
michelle
p.s. our purpose or cause, in effect ,sets a time in which God can BE.
do you think that God lacked the power or didn?t want to create creatures with true free choice
listen to yourself.... If I have concluded for my satisfaction that man has set the time machine(for us) where does that preclude free choice? God gave man free choice, this is what we have done. God foresaw what and where man's free choice got him and had the power and foreknowledge to do something about it. Without His intervention, according to his Wisdom, mankind could and would destroy themselves. Can the world powers accomplish this now?
Tell me what you understand about disposition, predestination, predetermination, election, and ordination.
michelle
God created man and therefore He initiated time but we set it in motion for us the moment God created us. In the Bible we even get a glimpse of what it was like before there was our time!
