Criticisms of Pastor Russell

by RR 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • RR
    RR
    You are barking up the wrong trees, RR. This should be evident to you when you are faced with the knowledge that you are dealing with two frauds here.

    You know Farkel, I really don't know what is it with you. Why are you so upset that I and many others who were formally associated with the Witnesses are now associated with the Bible Students? Why does it bother you so? Is it because we have a meaningful life and you don't? Yeah, maube that's it!

    RR

  • RR
    RR

    Gordo

    How does Jesus feel about sharing you with the teachings of a man?

    Jesus has a lot of room in my heart, as to sharing it with Pastor Russell? Well, he did appoint him "That servant" so I don't think he's jealous! Any more than Jehovah is of Jesus!

    RR

  • RR
    RR

    Shotgun

    This is not personal, I enjoy your posts and I'm glad your here..I just don't understand why you exchanged one misguided religion for the misguided one it was based on...if it floats your boat that's ok but to call it truth or extol the fine qualties of it's founder are too much!

    I'm glad you enjoy my post. As to Russell? it floats my boat BECAUSE I believe it is truth.

    When CTR died he his teachings were:

    1) The time of the end began in 1799 ( French revolution) Do you agree with that?

    Yep, makes sense to me, but you probably don't understand what he was referring to anyways.

    2) 1874 Christ returned invisibly based on calculations that man had been on the earth for 6000 years in 1874. WT or Fred Franz later changed it so 6000 years culminated in 1975. Which is correct and does it matter? Do you believe Christ returned in 1874 and if so then is that because you believe man had been on earth for 6000 years at that time?

    I believe the Lord returned in 1874, yes, I do not accept the Franz interpretation.

    3) 1914 came and went contrary to what CTR taught. Was his pyramid calculations accurate or not?

    the chronology had nothing to do with the Great Pyramid. In fact the Chronology was devised long before thre great Pyramid teachings. It ONLY corroborated what the Chronology taught. However, the dates were correct I believe, just off on the events to happen. However much of what C.T. Russell taught on end time prophecies have been fulfilled since then and are continuing to be fulfilled. A look at volume 4 would prove this. A bit out dqated, but nevertheless the principle are still there.

    4) Did he not make comments on blacks not being as intelligent as whites, doesn't that bother you. I'm white and it bothers me, someone with so much power over so many, the ability to influence what they think and believe and then to say something so uninspired and derogitory turns my stomach.

    It doesn't bother me, because this was readily accepted and proven by "modern science". Much of what was accepted back then is no longer true science today. If he would to say the opposite, then he would be attacked for going against science. Just like the 606 date, Russell believed the scriptures, but no, he had to be wrong, because science and history tells us differently. Or the blacks were a idiot race, but no, the Bible tells us man ws created by God. even the constitution tells us "all men were created equal." My kids are half black, should it bother me that Russell and most of his day thjought they were morons? not at all. If you were alive back then, you'd probably think the same!

    If conversations like this bother you RR I would refrain from starting threads where you invite Criticism of your faith or who it's based on.

    I'm not offendedby what people here or elsewheere say about my faith, I never get offended by what people say or do. If I did, I wouldn't be on here posting, although I find most of the postings here offensive and unChristian, I realize that most here are not Christians, just whiners, because they can't find a life after the Watchtower.

  • Terry
    Terry

    I think I know where R R is coming from. About a year ago I contacted the local Bible Students and went over to talk. I got the chart talk and bought Studies in the Scriptures.

    I find them very calm, devout and patient people with none of the JW hubris at all. If there ever was going to be a little flock of the faithful there are fewer candidates that are better than the Bible Students.

    Studies in the Scriptures is a remarkable tome! The writing, in my opinion, is quite beautiful. The reasoning, for what it is and what it purports to be, is not outside the mainstream of how devout people in the 1800's talked and thought regarding spritual matters.

    Without trying to sound insulting I'd say it was the best compliation of offbeat, non-mainstream thoughts money could buy. There is a genuine feeling of peaceful sweetness to Russell's writing and a sense of genuine feeling for his messege.

    Now, having said all the above as sincerely as I possibly can, I have to say that I am speaking from the standpoint of an Agnostic who is bitter about spiritual matters. IF (a huge "if") the Bible was the "word of God" I see no reason to have to distill it into an even larger book by a man! Either the Bible is the result of God's intention or it isn't. (I say it isn't). But, to continue to have more and more and more explanations is not only redundant but insulting to the mind behind the word of God (which if it really was divine would be higher than man's anyway.)

    You see, for me, it comes down to having learned a profound HUNGER for fantasy in the person of a divine supreme being who loves me. I really fell hard for that. I had a crush on God, bigtime. But, to continue to moon after that wish and to inflate my passion by chasing after fanciful stories that tickle my ears is a waste of my life. That's MY decision.

    R R has his own wants and needs and desires and that they revolve around a divine personage is commendable because of the virtue attached to what the idea of "god" represents. R R is trying for a transcendant life. I congratulate that. He believes he has found a path that has few stumbling stones on it. Good on him!

    We who have tasted Kool-aid and nearly died from it aren't too keen on the lemonade stand on the corner with the same brand attached! Our horror at all things C.T.Russell and J.F.Rutherford is surely understandable!

    I enjoy R R's posts. I find him elegant in his manner of expression. He is no doubt exasperated with criticisms; but, he handles it well. Better than I do or would.

    I applaud the fact that all of us can come together and discuss these things. But, our very real exasperation with the METHODOLOGY of "slaves" discreet or otherwise, leaves a very nasty taste upon our lips.

    I view this as a pleasant afternoon's discussion of Flat Earth theories and perpetual motion machines. Nothing more.

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    Ouch

    I realize that most here are not Christians, just whiners, because they can't find a life after the Watchtower.

    Excellent example of christian qualities in that statement...BTW I'd settle for being called a compassionate human over a good christian anyday.

    Believe what you will RR, I don't agree with any of your statements about CTR's teachings but if I had to choose being raised a Bible student or a dub I'd choose Bible student because it seems less rigid.

    One question...If you openly spoke contrary to CTR's teachings would you be shunned by your congregation? Is shunning even practised?

  • RR
    RR
    One question...If you openly spoke contrary to CTR's teachings would you be shunned by your congregation? Is shunning even practised?

    Shunning is not practiced among Bible Students in general. Disagreements can, will and do ocurr. NO one is forced to accept what we believe. We agree to disagree.

    RR

  • kes152
    kes152

    No you don't have a room in your home as a shrine to Russel.

    The shrine is in your heart and mind.

    Amen! This is what the Spirit is saying to you, RR.

    If you have 'ears,' may you 'hear' what the Spirit is saying...

  • RR
    RR

    Hey Kes, I see you're in Cali, we have about about half a dozen ecclesias in the Cali area, maybe you'd like to come and sit in on a study, you'd might learn something about us.

    RR

  • outoftheorg
    outoftheorg

    WELL GUYS, MY ABOUT 50 YEAR DIET OF ORGANIZED RELIGION, "JW STYLE" HAS LEFT ME WITH A BAD CASE OF HEART BURN AND MENTAL FLATULENCE.

    SO I HAVE ABANDONED THE "MEAT IN DUE SEASON" FOR TV DINNERS.

    I'LL BE DAMNED IF I WILL GIVE ANOTHER BIBLE CHEF ANOTHER SHOT AT ME.

    HOWEVER FOR RR, IF HE HAS FOUND A BELIEF THAT TEACHES "AND CREATES" A CALM AND HAPPY LIFE AND RESULTS IN DOING GOOD FOR HIS FAMILY AND OTHERS, I WOULD BE THE LAST PERSON TO CRITICIZE HIM OR HIS CHOICE.

    IF THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE RELIGION, SUCH AS DATING END TIMES AND PROPHECIES DON'T CANCELL OUT THE PREVIOUS GOOD AND CAUSE TURMOIL AND DANGEROUS LIFE CHANGES BASED ON THESE THINGS. THE MORE POWER TO HIM.

    Outoftheorg

  • Quotes
    Quotes

    Terry said:

    ========================
    The writing, in my opinion, is quite beautiful.
    ========================

    In my opinion, the writing (Studies in the Scriptures) is terrible... unless you have insomnia, in which case it is an excellent cure.

    But that's just my opnion. Your milage may vary.

    ~Quotes, of the "Toronto's CN Tower is Yet Another Unexplained, Miraculous, Mysterious Stone Witness Confirming Rutherford's Chronology" class

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