Should Anything Exist????Says Who???Should Nothing Exist?? Says Who? (page 6)

shamus

Franklin,

I guess it's true. I'm just too stupid to even understand what you just said.

Sorry to barge into your thread. Continue on.

outbutnotdown

Wasn't it Einstein that said, "Energy never dies, it just changes form."?

"Things" that exist, whether people want to theorize whether they are just holograms or whatever... they still exist as we perceive them to be as a part of that hologram, so.... yeah, things DO exist. We've "named" those things, probably mostly just for consistency during our advancement in socialization. By naming those things, (including good/bad, love/hate, God/Satan) we have allowed individuals and groups to be simple-minded and judgemental as much as we have made it easier for us to be open-minded and loving.

God and Satan exist in me as much as they exist in a fly, it seems. It's what we do with what is inherently in us that makes us either satisfied or dismayed at our lot in life/existence.

B.

frankiespeakin

Just rambling here:

No one can speak with authority on what is causation of existence,,we can only form different concept from previous concepts which again use preconcieve conclusions and on and on it goes all are "assumed" ideas of the mind,,,the conscious mind does much assumption maybe subconcious lot smarter I don't know I think so.

There is no firm basis for one to answer this question intelectually. The more open the mind the easier it is to grasp that proof is not available,,and only assumptions can be made. I think this is true,, maybe not ultimate truth but closer to truth because I cannot say with authority. I think the more my mind believes it to be true the more my mind will give up beleiveing in concepts.

This I think can be very freeing. It can be very scary too but if you could be free of belief in concepts of the mind and veiw it as just thought,,(which is true??) would that not also free you to be veiwing pain as nothing more than a concept of the mind to stear you away from things it conciderers harmful or is just fearful of? Would that not make pain just a thing like any other thing just a thought just a untrue concept. I think this to be what the benifits of "knowing not knowing",,which is a form of knowing.

FlyingHighNow

For those who don't think they really exist: the next time you slam your fingers very hard in the door, I want to hear you tell us you don't exist. If you ever get a kidney stone or get sprayed in the eyes with pepper spray and you tell me, in between screams that you don't exisit, I'll say, "It's too quiet in here, I better turn on some music."

frankiespeakin

Flying,

For those who don't think they really exist: the next time you slam your fingers very hard in the door, I want to hear you tell us you don't exist. If you ever get a kidney stone or get sprayed in the eyes with pepper spray and you tell me, in between screams that you don't exisit, I'll say, "It's too quiet in here, I better turn on some music."

Those are just programed responses to certain types of feelings that have been handed down to us from our evolutionary path. They may hint to an existence that only seems to be true because we have these concepts and words that have evolved too. You still can't prove your seperate existence from mystery around you. What is real anyway?? I mean what does this word real mean???

FlyingHighNow

Those are just programed responses to certain types of feelings that have been handed down to us from our evolutionary path.

I don't know about that. I do know they hurt like hell. Since you can't produce a kidney stone at will, just go slam your fingers in the door, all the way shut, a couple of times. programmed response? Yes, and it's called: PAIN.

What is real anyway?? I mean what does this word real mean???

If you ever get a kidney stone, you'll know the pain is real. You won't stop to think about your response. I've had several. The last thing you are thinking, while throwing up so hard from the pain that you burst the blood vessels in the whites of your eyes, is, "Let's get all philosophical about whether I, or this pain, really exist or not." You are thinking you'd rather not exist if you have to stay in this kind of pain. Did I say excrutiating?

What is real?

AOL online dictionary:

Main Entry: [1]re·al
Pronunciation: 'rE(-&)l, 'ri(-&)l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, real, relating to things (in law), from Middle French, from Medieval Latin & Late Latin; Medieval Latin realis relating to things (in law), from Late Latin, real, from Latin res thing, fact; akin to Sanskrit rayi property
Date: 14th century
1 : of or relating to fixed, permanent, or immovable things (as lands or tenements)
2 a : not artificial, fraudulent, illusory, or apparent : GENUINE ; also : being precisely what the name implies b (1) : occurring in fact (2) : of or relating to practical or everyday concerns or activities (3) : existing as a physical entity and having properties that deviate from an ideal, law, or standard ; compare IDEAL 3b c : having objective independent existence d : FUNDAMENTAL, ESSENTIAL e (1) : belonging to or having elements or components that belong to the set of real numbers (2) : concerned with or containing real numbers (3) : REAL-VALUED f : measured by purchasing power g : COMPLETE, UTTER 3 : of a particle : capable of being detected; compare VIRTUAL 3
- re·al·ness noun
- for real 1 : in earnest : SERIOUSLY 2 : GENUINE

frankiespeakin

Flyin,

You seem to concentrate on pain as do I sometimes,, could the concentration we give pain to make it hurt us more than it has to. Perhaps what we precieve as pain that hurts so bad is millions of years of evolutional conditioning that caused us to be afraid of it and thus make us make it the center of attention?

How about all the bacteria that gets wiped out when we piss on the ground would do you think these bacteria shreek in terror,,I doubt it but just think of all the billions of bacteria that will kill with our bodies all the time every second we treat some bacteria worse than Hitler treated the Jew,, extermination is all the body wants of these pests. We even go after them with fire,chemicals and light to kill them and yet we don't even care how we masacre.What I'm trying to say here is it is all points of view.

Now I have not reached this point where I have lost all fear of pain,,but I think it is possible when the mind liberates itself by knowing it doesn't know,,when the mind does that and lives only in the now it doesn't view pain from the accumulation of concepts it once had beleived in. Pain is just veiwed as an experience uncondition by past concept. At least that is what I think the mind would do when it finally give up trying to label everything.

bebu

You still can't prove your seperate existence from mystery around you.

Does JWD really exist? My computer may be just having spasms and these "posts" might just be accidents. And I don't know how well I'm using my time if my computer is only having hiccups. Even if I got a clever answer with 'proof', well, these could still just be even more sophisticated hiccups. Anything's possible...

In the meantime, I have no doubt that we are real in this realm. And I also see reason to believe that there is a stronger reality above this one as well. Fake kidney stones don't cause pain in fake people. If reality were so flexible and just a state of our mind, then no one should really ever bury a loved one, for it never need happen.

bebu

frankiespeakin

Bebu,

In the meantime, I have no doubt that we are real in this realm. And I also see reason to believe that there is a stronger reality above this one as well.

So are you saying you view one reality weaker than another??

Fake kidney stones don't cause pain in fake people. If reality were so flexible and just a state of our mind, then no one should really ever bury a loved one, for it never need happen.

Well I don't know about that because that is a concept "you" have about what reality "should be" and what it "should never be". And I don't know any one with that authority who can really say what reality should be.

Kenneson

Frankie,

How did you come to the conclusion that thoughts and concepts and the mind exist and yet you question your own existence?

Should Anything Exist????Says Who???Should Nothing Exist?? Says Who?

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