To be even more precise, there isn't really a shift in identification from ego to awareness - what there is is the dropping of ego identification into What Is always here. There is no entity which identifies with awareness, there is simply the resting in awareness and the 'knowingness' that That is what you actually are. Again, this can't be put into words that makes sense. If it worked that way then all one would have to do to awaken is read the 'magic formula' and one would awaken. All words/concepts must be seen through - recognize That in which words and concepts arise and pass away again.
To simply be, is to be Being - to identify with what arises in Being is where ego/minds get stuck.
Should Anything Exist????Says Who???Should Nothing Exist?? Says Who?
by frankiespeakin 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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poppers
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Narkissos
This is very interesting.
But between the real "it" of awareness, which is actually non-personal and wordless, and the imaginary "me" as a part of an imaginary "reality", I still need the symbolical mediation of a purely linguistical, grammatical "I".
"I" can't rest in the "it" (except for moments of silent meditation, which are ek-stasis as much as intro-spection). Neither can "I" rest in the imaginary "me" (for the Other awakens me from my self-dream). Nor can I dismiss either.
I am it and I am not it.
I am me and I am not me.
I am also a word -- the subject pronoun I.
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poppers
Right Narkissos. We 'people' are left with rules of grammar to help us communicate. The trouble with this is that it limits this kind of communication to the conceptual, while what we really are is beyond concept. 'We' are stuck with words which automatically, by their very use, puts limits on what we actually are. How else to do it? Well, as Ramana Maharshi might say, 'Who is asking?' His most powerful teaching was when he was silent and the one who sought answers recognized the silence of awareness within.
As soon as you are dealing with words you are dealing with concepts - discover for 'yourself' what's here before the words arise, what's always here. But don't look for it in any with any expectation of what 'It' might be, for 'It' has no shape or form. -
Satanus
Let's explore the 'awakening'. Let's say that a large part of the world suddenly has an 'awakening'. Instead of dallying in silly old words, they fall silent. Large wars stop, commerce slows to a crawl, planes may or may not fly, buses run sometimes, if you're lucky you can get a meal at a restaurent, gasoline is really scarce, and so on.
Do you on the path think that this would be a fairly acurate description? What pros would you add to this list?
This isn't meant as a criticism, but an extrapolation of this movement. Hope i don't scare youse off.
S
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Satanus
Media industries shrink drastically; radio for entertainment goes down to a fraction of it's previous size, the movie industry collapses, newspapers become practically irrelavant. People stream out of the cities to recieve their own land plots as land is freely divvied up. Most become subsistence farmers.
S
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frankiespeakin
Satanus,
That's a good question,,I'm not awakened,,but I think people would still go to work,,talk,,and carry on realatively normal lives some may change completely,,from what I notice about the universe is that evolution takes jerky steps I think the over active dominaring ego is just a little blip in human evolution and that eventually greater conciousness will settle in.
So it may disrupt some things and even out others nothing seems to be "perfect" or that predictable,,It allmost seems to me to be some type of lovely game of exploration and surprise into the unknown. I speak here incorrectly using human concepts I know,,but it seem to me that this what ever it is is love in a sense more profound than words.
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poppers
Good question Satanus. First of all, a correction to my last sentence in my last post - it should read: But don't look for it with any expectation of what 'It' might be, for 'It' has no shape or form.
Being awake doesn't imply nothing continues 'out there'. And I'm not sure if a mass awakening will ever happen, but on an individual basis, of course things continue. There will be differences, however. The 'problems' which typically arise due to conflicting beliefs arising out of 'separate entities' would largely disappear - egos bumping heads with one another will be seen as a sort of 'play' that has no impact on what one actually is - nothing can harm or change consciousness in any way, so there is no fear of anything. What is seen is viewed as though it were some sort of elaborate play in which the characters believe in the role they are portraying (those who are 'sleeping', that is). Even with the awakened the ego is put on occassionally so one can function in the everyday world, but the ego is more like a loose fitting garment that can be easily set aside when not needed. Whenever a 'problem' is encountered there is an immediate recognition that ego has temporarily returned. When it's seen to be a play there can be a conscious participation in the play rather than an unconscious participation, as is currently the case. The unconscious participation is where 'problems' exist. To the awakened all is seen as a great game and the 'imagined me' doesn't really exist.
I would surmise with a mass awakening wars would end because they would have no driving force to keep them going. But of course, it wouldn't really matter anyway since even 'war' would be just another dream scenario which is recognized as such. But commerce would continue because as long as one has a body that body will have certain needs in order to continue within the dream. But there will no longer be an attachment to the body because it is seen to be a temporary thing arising out of permanent awareness. -
poppers
frankie,
Great insight when you said, "I speak here incorrectly using human concepts I know,,but it seem to me that this what ever it is is love in a sense more profound than words." Yes, a love which is wordless; and so open, accepting, and benevolent that It allows everything to be as it is. To step away from what the 'little me' thinks it is is to be open to what is. -
Panda
Hey yah'll. There is a terrific book titled "virtual History" It's a terrific "WHAT IF?" essays about history. What if Einstein was killed in Germany? What if George Washington had accepted the presidency for life? What if Islam had experienced a reformation like the christians? I think it's a great read for history or philosophy.
It's all "what if" really. But the Moody Blues had a great song-quest "I don't know what I'm searching for. Should NEVER have opened the door. Tomorrow might find me at last, turning my back on the past. But time will tell of stars that fell... a million years away...memories that never take us back to home sweet home...you can never go home anymore................I'm goin' to sing my song and sing it all day long in every different way, How can I tell you all the things inside my head ...I've got to change the world, got to change my life. Do what makes you happy Do what you know is right. And love with all your might before it's too late. Where do I find all these words?... something inside of me's burning... maybe theres other worlds maybe there's other words to say."
This group also mentioned that we know we exist because they can play their "magnetic tape."
So we only know we exist because of our effect on everything and everyone around us. That's actually how we know elements exist..even elements we haven't found are known to exist because they effect their brethren.
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Narkissos
Poppers:
Language is just as much a limit to me as the air is a limit to the bird or the water to the fish. I belong to it and I can only live, think, desire, enjoy, in it, through it -- and struggling with it at the same time.
Thinking that I can settle in wordlessness is delusional IMO.
I can meet the wordless as much as the earth can meet the sky in the horizon.
Either there is no place where this actually happens, or this actually happens everywhere.
Anyway I deeply agree with your "game" perspective.