Should Anything Exist????Says Who???Should Nothing Exist?? Says Who?

by frankiespeakin 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    The universe has apparently always existed in some form. It exists and, like arguments for an even more complex "given" (God himself) simply "is".

    That "is" could be a chaos of atoms in a swarm of attraction and repulsion or it could be something else. I don't know and neither do you or any mastermind elsewhere. But, through countless eons that swarm of existing "stuff" coalesced in various ways.

    That is all we really have to go on. If it doesn't sound pretty or doesn't appeal to anybody personally---well, climb into your head and make something better up that warms the fuzzies of your mind! Everybody else has!!

    We have to be very tidy and even fastidious when we ask an important question.

    Why?

    We can end up with a Trojan Horse question that has smuggled hidden concepts into the chain of logic. The end results are then skewed beyond repair.

    Existence exists.

    A=A

    If we ask "why?" DOES existence exist.....that is different from asking: Why "should?" existence exist.

    All of man's (actual) knowledge about (actual) things comes from his senses. His ability to focus and analyze his percepts vary from individual to individual. But, collectively man's data is sensory (for better or for worse). This data by itself isn't perfectly understood. That is why he tests it variously.

    The second means of man's knowledge is by inference. He juggles, blends and abstracts by mixing the __actual__with the__imagined. The results can be theoretical guesses that are worthless or masterpieces of insight into how the universe operates.

    Having said all that...let's face facts. We don't have any sensory data about the origin of existing things beyond the observable cycles. We can project forward and backward in time the chain of causes and effects, but, at some point it all breaks down in the built-in chaos of unpredictable variance.

    There is plenty hearsay and plain old word-of-mouth handed down through the ages. "Answers" purporting to be from an "outside source" (god) proliferate through the world. But, that too is beyond actual sensory limits.

    So, vast numbers of primitive people (and even sophisticated moderns) go ahead anyway and outdistanced proof and fact-checking. They just shrug and accept whatever appeals to them by creating an "otherness" to existence which is beyond anybody's perceptions except the wishful thinking of imagination.

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    One thing I know, my daughters existance was because I had sex with my wife and didn't wear a condom. The same goes for me, my parents, grandparents and on and on untill who the hell started it all. All the rest of our beginning is just theory and theology. I've thought about existance until I'm about to go nuts. Just make up a theory and beleive it.

    Ken P.

  • Joe Bloggs
    Joe Bloggs

    OK, if somebody responds to this post, then at least I exist. How can I be so cock-sure? Well first of all I am typing this post right at this very moment. I know that I am (as far as I am able to know, and to know what it means to know) as I can see it on my screen as I type. So I know (see previous stuff on knowing) that the post is up there. Next, when I click the submit button, it will be displayed on the JWD website for all to see (as long as they exist also). BUT it will take only ONE poster to respond to this to prove all this. (That is not to say that anybody or anything else exists, mind you).

    OK, any takers?

    Joe

  • Terry
    Terry

    I want to apologize for the hoax....Joe Bloggs is a fictional character me and my drinking buddies thought up one night and decided it would be fun to pretend he actually existed. We posted him on this discussion board and now, would you believe it, he thinks he ACTUALLY exists now!

    What to do?

  • Joe Bloggs
    Joe Bloggs

    I want to apologize for the hoax....Terry is a fictional character me and my drinking buddies thought up one night and decided it would be fun to pretend he actually existed. We posted him on this discussion board and now, would you believe it, he thinks he ACTUALLY exists now!

    What to do?

    Joe

  • Terry
    Terry

    This is Dr.Meninger speaking. I'm afraid one of our patients with an extreme form of schizophrenia is loose and posting on this Forum. Please ignore their ravings.

    Thank you

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Your'e all probably just thoughts delluded into thinking you are real and seperate identities.

  • Joe Bloggs
    Joe Bloggs

    Aw come off it, Terry. You both know that you are a figment of my imagination so in fact neither of you actually exist at all. The figment itself, by definition does not really exist, except in my imagination (which does exist, BTW) so it is impossible for either of you to exist.

    Dr. Meninger

  • Tashawaa
    Tashawaa

    Terry,

    You actually bring up a good point. "I think, therefore I am". One simplicistic concept that we've all heard. YET,

    those with multiple personalities ... do each of these personalities exist seperately? I have witnesses a person with this disorder (for lack of a better word) and there is no question, when one personality changes to another.

  • myauntfanny
    myauntfanny

    Frankie

    Your'e all probably just thoughts delluded into thinking you are real and seperate identities.

    Whose thoughts? Does the person thinking us exist?

    Narkissos

    According to him it is our connection, not to this "Father" actually but to "his" absence (the "name of the Father"), which determines our symbolical position as speaking subjects ("I").

    Headache time. Is it just me, or is this really hard to grasp? Do you get it intuitively?

    Yet I think we could not exist as speaking beings without some kind of "hole" in reality, without connecting to "something" which is not part of the real world and which actually does not exist. Delusion, yes, but without it I believe we would choke.

    Interesting. I can't quite see why it has to be non-existent, as opposed to merely inherently unknowable. In fact, if it must be non-existent, then it can only be a human construct or artifact, and wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

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