by AGuest 109 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
And yes, that One DOES speak... openly and honestly... to all. The question is: are you LISTENING?
Shelby dear, what channel would he be on these days or what frequency. I have asked asked as well and we must be on different wavelengths or something. You would think tho if anyone was asking you should recieve but that is just not the case.
We just watched Passion of Christ last night and it amazes me that any kind of loving father would allow that kind of treatment of his son.
Tor
?notice the title to this very thread. No real apology to be found, just a way to get people to read her horse caca.?
Ahhhh, Six? Six? Six? Six? SIX!! Oh, ye of SO little faith? and apparently VERY little literary exposure? but obviously GREAT (and, unfortunately, unfounded and misplaced) contempt. My title was with reference to ?The Apology? by Plato, in which Socrates confesses his vocation... and the "voice" that spoke to him. Okay, okay, here, I'll search the Web for you and help you out...
Okay, read the following, excerpted from a very credible commentary (some university):
At 31b, Socrates attempts to convince the jury that he really is a gift from God to Athens by asking them whether it seems natural for someone to neglect his own affairs, endure the humiliation of allowing his family to be neglected while he busied himself on behalf of Athens' citizens, urging them to set their thoughts on Athens. He also claims that he received neither enjoyment nor pay from his efforts, the latter being something that his accusers "have not had the impudence to pretend on any testimony". What does a juror say to this except that Socrates has provided evidence that he is either heaven sent or out of his mind. Socrates goes on to explain to the jury something it probably has no interest hearing, viz., Socrates' reasons for confining his work to the private sector rather than offering advice on matters of state. The reason is his divine sign, (Socrates' shit-detector, as it has been called). According to Socrates: " . . . I am subject to a divine or supernatural experience, which Meletus saw fit to travesty in his indictment. It began in my early childhood -- a sort of voice which comes to me, and when it comes it always dissuades me from what I am proposing to do, and never urges me on. It is this that disbars me from entering public life, and a very good thing too, in my opinion, because, . . . if I had tried long ago to engage in politics, I should long ago have lost my life . . . . Please do not be offended if I tell you the truth. No man on earth who conscientiously opposes either you or any other organized democracy, and flatly prevents a great many wrongs and illegalities from taking place in the state to which he belongs, can possibly escape with his life. The true champion of justice, if he intends to survive even for a short time, must necessarily confine himself to private life and leave politics alone." (31d ff.).
(Italics and bolding mine)
Now, Six... knowing me as you do (at least, as you claim to), do you truly think I could have come to know of something like this and NOT have asked my Lord if it were TRUE? Come, come, now...
Shelby dear, what channel would he be on these days or what frequency.
On the same ?channel? he?s always been, dear Toreador: the "channel" of love... that exists in your heart? tiny though that might be for some. And apparently t he smaller it is? the harder it is to hear. Why? Because things like anger, hatred, hypocrisy, condemnation, etc., stand in the way. If these things are larger in you... than love is... they will, of course, overshadow the latter. Logic.
In addition to those things is the Law Covenant. How is that? It is as Paul said: just like a wife who is bound to a husband all the days that he is alive is set free from his law once he dies, when my Lord DIED? the Law Covenant was nailed to the stake WITH him? and died? WITH him. So that we could belong to a NEW covenant? a law of LOVE. IF, however, a person wants to continue to be bound by a law? that is DEAD? it is just as like a wife continuing the follow the ?law? of her DEAD husband. Rather than realizing that she has been set FREE? so as to be bound by the law of a NEW husband, should she choose to take one? she continues under the ?old? one. That makes it very DIFFICULT for her, then, the HEAR? the law of her NEW husband, doesn?t it? However, if that wife recognizes that the OLD husband, while good? has DIED? and now remarried, submits herself to live under the law of her NEW husband? she will hear the NEW husband? when HE speaks to her? rather than blocking him out by means of her memory of the law of her OLD husband.
In my own case, as can also be in yours and everyone?s? the law of the Christ? is my new ?husband?? the old law (husband) having been impaled with Christ? thus DYING? with him. And the law of this NEW ?husband?? is one that says do NOT judge? do NOT condemn? do NOT hate (even your enemies)? do NOT conduct yourself deceitfully? DO love? DO forgive? DO release? DO show mercy? and DO? acknowledge and confess that I am your ?husbandly owner.?
It truly is not ?rocket science?, dear ones!!
I have asked asked as well and we must be on different wavelengths or something. You would think that if anyone was asking you should recieve but that is just not the case.
Not true. Not at all. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/71148/1.ashx
We just watched Passion of Christ last night and it amazes me that any kind of loving father would allow that kind of treatment of his son.
Yes, well, what amazes ME? is that that Son loved ME so much? that he willingly gave his life FOR me? and that His FATHER loved ME so much? that He LET him! Loved not only ME? and gave that life not only for me... but the WORLD... and FOR the world. Contrary to what the WTBTS says ABOUT "the world." THAT much? even for those who impaled him (?Father, FORGIVE them? for they do not know what they are doing??).
(Okay, I?m starting to tear up, now, or as my kids used to say, "Mom's eyes are gettin' all hecka glassy..."), soooooooo?
I'll just leave you now? in peace such as my Lord gives it... all of you.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
It began in my early childhood -- a sort of voice which comes to me, and when it comes it always dissuades me from what I am proposing to do
No man on earth who conscientiously opposes either you or any other organized democracy,
herein lies what Socrates was referring to. His conscience was the voice in his head, not some god or whatever...
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
We just watched Passion of Christ last night and it amazes me that any kind of loving father would allow that kind of treatment of his son.Yes, well, what amazes ME? is that that Son loved ME so much? that he willingly gave his life FOR me? and that His FATHER loved ME so much? that He LET him! Loved not only ME? and gave that life not only for me... but the WORLD... and FOR the world. Contrary to what the WTBTS says ABOUT "the world." THAT much? even for those who impaled him (?Father, FORGIVE them? for they do not know what they are doing??).
When the Isrealites made animal sacrifices to Jehovah they went and procured an animal either their own or bought one and then killed the animal by slitting it throat and offered the carcass to Jehovah by burning it. What strikes me a little strange about Jesus death is that the ones who killed Jesus did not even know they were making an atonement sacrifice for the world of mankind for Adams sin. The ones that killed him had no clue what they were doing. If they would have made the sacrifice according to how it was done with animals they would have said "looky here we have a perfect man lets slit his throat and burn his body as a sacrifice to Jehovah for an eternal ransom for us. That would have been the proper way to do it. Don't you think this makes much more sense? The way it was carried out makes such a mockery of it all and paints God to be a cruel father to let his son die such a terrible death, worse ten fold than the way they killed even animals, but then God did love killing and animals sacrifices, simply look at the tens of thousands of sheep and cattle that were sacrificed at the dedication of Solomans temple, and all this killing very much pleased this God of cruelty.
AGuest,
May I sincerely ask you, how do you know the voice you hear is that of God? The Bible teaches that Satan can transform himself into an angel of light and it also says we should not go beyond the things that are written. The voice you hear has gone beyond the things that are written while it also claims to be a revealing light, a friend.
Does it speak consolingly to you? Does it make you feel close to God? Does it sometimes puzzle you or make you feel hurt? Has it ever caused you pain?
Jesus taught us to judge the tree by its fruit. What is the fruit of the voice you hear? Is it always good or is it a mix of good and painful?
I ask these questions because Satan is capable of fooling the best of God's servants by pretending to be God himself.
With love,
Sabrina
herein lies what Socrates was referring to. His conscience was the voice in his head, not some god or whatever...
I think perhaps you are engaging in a very common WTBTS?ism, dear DOB (peace to you!), that of taking a very small part of a much larger picture? and stating a conclusion that is WAY out of context? in the hopes of persuading people that it is correct. The TRUTH is that Socrates confessed that the voice sent him to Athens NOT to oppose their politics, but to plead with them to examine themselves as to their virtue and wisdom? or, rather, their lack thereof. It was the men of Athens who wanted Socrates to USE his gift? his ?wisdom? (as they perceived it, for they had no illusions that he was wiser than they, although he himself repeatedly confessed that he was NOT wise, at all)? in politics? which USE? and partnership? he ?conscientiously? opposed.
And my Lord did the same thing when, based on the manifestation of HIS gift(s), the people exhorted him to declare himself king over the city of Jerusalem. Like Socrates? he could have concurred and accepted an earthly position, as JAH had no ?law? against it. However, also like Socrates? he conscientiously chose NOT to? NOT because a voice TOLD him not to (indeed, it was not forbidden)? but for the sake of a BETTER reward, even if he had to die before receiving it, something I am not sure you would understand.
But in both cases? that?s exactly what it meant? NOT because God willed it? but because, as it is with almost every true prophet, people would rather kill the messenger? than hear the message. All the while considering themselves to be good and righteous (?the hour is coming when all who kill you will THINK they are rendering an act of sacred service??). They even say, then and now, ?WE? are not like our forefathers, for it a prophet were sent to US, WE would not kill such a one.?
But there is even mercy and forgiveness for such ones because my Lord KNOWS them to be blind? and naked? and miserable? and pitiable? so that they do not KNOW what they have done/are doing. In HIS compassion? which such ones do not possess themselves? he forgives. Not because they deserve it? but because of HIS love. This is the love he has taught me? and is teaching me? to love? and if necessary, forgive? even my enemies. That?s the kind of person he is? and the kind I hope I can be one day. I?m still trying, though?
What strikes me a little strange about Jesus death is that the ones who killed Jesus did not even know they were making an atonement sacrifice for the world of mankind for Adams sin. The ones that killed him had no clue what they were doing. If they would have made the sacrifice according to how it was done with animals they would have said "looky here we have a perfect man lets slit his throat and burn his body as a sacrifice to Jehovah for an eternal ransom for us. That would have been the proper way to do it. Don't you think this makes much more sense?
Well, I can see how one might want to look at it that way, dear Toreador (and peace to you, as well!), but I understand it differently: that such ones didn?t say what you suggest because they didn?t KNOW he was a sacrifice at all? and certainly not for them as well as for ALL mankind. And that in His infinite love, the Father, rather than disowning them? has LOVINGLY allowed them to still benefit from a sacrifice they didn?t even know they were making? didn?t even know they NEEDED? if and whenever they gain their senses and realize it. AND? that even if they never did? after applying it first to those who did? would STILL give them the benefit. For Israel is only on hold? ?until the full number of the nations comes is.? Once that number? which NO man is able to number? is filled? God will again turn His attention to Israel, so as to apply the ransom to them? AS ABRAHAM?S SEED? and by means of this? ALL ISRAEL? will be saved. They just won?t have the prominent position in the ?house? that they WOULD have had? such position being given to the nations as a result of Israel's "stumbling" over the "cornerstone" OF that House? along with 144,000 from among the sons of Israel.
Again, I bid you peace
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
AGuest,
I am still waiting to see if you god told you all this information or if you looked it up. There is a lot of detail there.... why are you ignoring me? I know it's easy to do with a million screaming hee-hawing slack-jawed yokels yippin' and yahooin' right now, LOL.
I'm not sure how many of you people have met "AGuest", much less spent any time with her personally.
Well, I have. On a number of occassions. We walked on the beach together in San Diego for hours and discussed many things. We went into a coffee bar and I played the piano for her. (She can tell you naysayers whether I am a great piano player, or not) She lives within a comfortable distance from me now and we meet when we can. We've helped each other out. We would do it again if we can.
She's married, but estranged from her husband. Yet, she values her marriage vows very seriously. Had she not, I would have made a move on her. Then again, I'm just a pagan slut.
I told her in our first meet up that I did not want to hear this "God talks to me" stuff, and she never brought it up. We have enough stuff to talk about without that coming into discussion.
Those of you who do not know her, are unfortunate people. She has so much life and so much energy and so much to give and is so darned SMART that those who do not know her are missing out on knowing a truly wonderful human being.
That being said, she still claims that God speaks to her. This makes her wacky. I can deal with wacky........
Besides, she's like a little sister to me and anyone who messes wtih her, is messing with me!
Farkel
Thank you for your reply Shelby,
Would it have been alright with Jehovah if the pagan nations surrounding the Israelites killed animals as sacrifices NOT knowing they were making sacrifices FOR the Israelites NOT even KNOWING they were doing it for the Israelites and themselves?
As you restated what I said:
that such ones didn?t say what you suggest because they didn?t KNOW he was a sacrifice at all? and certainly not for them as well as for ALL mankind.
It just doesnt make sense that pagans in effect made a sacrifice without even knowing it. Although I would suppose if you (Shelby) and I were there, lets say you were James and I were John were the ones to make the sacrifice of Jesus to Jehovah, I would dare say you and I would be unable to slit Jesus throat and burn his body up as a sacrifice to Jehovah, but strange as it may seem Jehovah not only wanted Jesus to be sacrificed but went further in allowing him to be sacrificed in a far more grotesque and inhumane manner.
The beheadings over in Iraq carried on by barbarians pale in comparison to what Jehovah allowed to happen to his son Jesus. If you and I could not allow ourselves to kill an innocent human to atone for our sins how is it that Jehovah allowed it and in effect condoned it? Could you kill one of your kids for the sins another one of your kids committed? This just doesnt mesh with a God of love.
The way that Jesus died was just pure barbaric and inhumane torture to death. I say a better way would have been for Jesus to have lived to a ripe old age and then he could have sacrificed himself by his own way of choosing and then for God to have taken him back to heaven.
Yours truly and peace to you as well,
Toreador
PS. I am still thinking about all those millions of poor animals sacrificed to death in the 4000 plus years prior to Jesus to temporarily atone for their ancestors, Adam and Eve, eating some forbidden fruit.
Of course you can deal with wacky, Farkel.
