Has anyone come across the research that states that Jehovah was a pagan name?? I read somewhere that Elohim was the correct name for God, meaning Lord, because his name was important to pronounce....I dont know if this is real, just fft
Why Jehovah is not included in some Bible.
by homme perdu 55 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Schizm
It also seems to be true that the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures did not record anyone (including Jesus) saying God's name.--FairMind.
Doesn't that give rise to suspicion though? ... considering the fact that the Hebrew Scriptures contain God's name almost 7000 times, isn't it strange that all of a sudden it's all but unkown in the Greek Scriptures! What accounts for that?
So the New World Translation Committee (Fred Franz?) was changing God's word when they inserted the Divine name where the original writers did not use it.--FairMind.
As many are aware, in the Greek Scriptures there are quotes made from the Hebrew Scriptures in which God's name appears, and which rightly belong in the Greek Scriptures therefore. Insofar as "changing God's word," what about those translations that have completely removed God's name from throughout the Hebrew Scriptures. The translators who did that have altered God's word close to 7000 times.
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Narkissos
Room215:
Then too, since in Judeo-Christian monotheism there is but one Almighty, does it not seem superfluous to apply a name the Diety, as if He were one of many, and is therefore not that practice a vestige of polytheism, where each culture had its own named god?
Right on target. This explains the late theological interpretations of the name (Exodus 3:12ff), the practical substitution of it with Adonay / Kurios = Lord, and so on.
Look at what the Hellenistic Jew Philo of Alexandria writes in the early 1st century (On the Change of Names, II):
It was, therefore, quite consistent with reason that no proper name could with propriety be assigned to him who is in truth the living God. Do you not see that to the prophet who is really desirous of making an honest inquiry after the truth, and who asks what answer he is to give to those who question him as to the name of him who has sent him, he says, "I am that I Am," {6} which is equivalent to saying, "It is my nature to be, not to be described by name:" (12) but in order that the human race may not be wholly destitute of any appellation which they may give to the most excellent of beings, I allow you to use the word Lord as a name; the Lord God of three natures--of instruction, and of holiness, and of the practice of virtue; of which Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob are recorded as the symbols. For this, says he, is the everlasting name, as if it has been investigated and discerned in time as it exists in reference to us, and not in that time which was before all time; and it is also a memorial not placed beyond recollection or intelligence, and again it is addressed to persons who have been born, not to uncreated natures. (13) For these men have need of the complete use of the divine name who come to a created or mortal generation, in order that, if they cannot attain to the best thing, they may at least arrive at the best possible name, and arrange themselves in accordance with that; and the sacred oracle which is delivered as from the mouth of the Ruler of the universe, speaks of the proper name of God never having been revealed to any one, when God is represented as saying, "For I have not shown them my Name;"{7} for by a slight change in the figure of speech here used, the meaning of what is said would be something of this kind: "My proper name I have not revealed to them," but only that which is commonly used, though with some misapplication, because of the reasons abovementioned. (14) And, indeed, the living God is so completely indescribable, that even those powers which minister unto him do not announce his proper name to us. At all events, after the wrestling match in which the practicer of virtue wrestled for the sake of the acquisition of virtue, he says to the invisible Master, "Tell me thy Name;"{8}{#ge 32:29.} but he said, "Why askest thou me my name?" And he does not tell him his peculiar and proper name, for says he, it is sufficient for thee to be taught my ordinary explanations. But as for names which are the symbols of created things, do not seek to find them among immortal natures.
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gdt
May I suggest that the Web pages on YHWH or Yahweh/Jehovah be studied carefully, it would alleviate everyone's differing opinions on this subject.
If it is true that the Name of God was used over 7,000 times (and it is true); and if it is true that Jesus and the apostles used that name in their words/writings (and that is also true); and if is is true that we are told by Christ Jesus to 'sanctify', 'hallow', that name as he did, it would seem that we all should be most careful about disrespecting God's name in our words or actions. Surely.
The exact way to pronouce YHWH is still unsure, the Anglicized version being Yahweh or Jehovah, no more original that using 'Jesus' as an Anglicized word that the original 'Jehoshua' or similar, but identifying the Father and the Son by Jehovah or Jesus is not being disrespectful to either of them.
James Tabor, Chair, Department of Religious tudies, University of North Carolina at Charlotte, is quoted as follows:
"If anyone could be labeled as a Christian, you might think it would be Paul, until you take a longer view. He is preaching the Hebrew God, Yahweh or Jehovah. He is telling the Gentiles about the Hebrew Bible. He expects them to be very Judaized.........cont."
I have personally seen the tetragrammaton YHWH in Hebrew on the Moabite stone, and other ancient records, and its use in the Bible confirms that the Creator identified himself this way for very good reasons, which we should know.
Cheers,
gdt.
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Narkissos
if it is true that Jesus and the apostles used that name in their words/writings (and that is also true)
It is not. If you really believe that, just try to prove it.
Edited to add the link to http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/74798/1.ashx for a previous discussion of this subject. Might save you some time
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Kenneson
I find it interesting that the Watchtower Society accuses the apostate church for leaving God's name out of the New Testament. Yet, by the same token, isn't it also ironic that it is the same church that restores the name (and not the W.T.S.)? The first to bring back into usage God's name was a Roman Catholic Spanish monk, Raymundus Martini in 1278. Writing in Latin, he spelled the name Yohoua. Later, in 1528, Petrus Galatinus spelled it Iehoua. This same Latin word Iehouah appears in William Tyndales' English Bible (the first five books of the Bible) in 1530. Finally, in 1611 the Authorized Version (King James) spelled it Jehovah. So, is "Jehovah" truly an anglicized name or is it Latin?
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Carmel
I concur with room215 on this one. My personal take on the scripture that commands that we "glorify His name" is not by using a fabricated version of a supposed translation of a totally ancient and lost invention. We "glorify His name" by our actions that reflect the beatitudes that Jesus adumbrated and by our faith an belief that He, Jesus was a perfect reflection of the divine attributes. No greater glory could we achieve than relfecting (created in His image). That was our purpose for being "created" so to speak.
carmel
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homme perdu
New Castles after looking through several Bible dictionaries and Judaism history books I did not come across anything that supported the claim that YHWH comes from pagan origens. I forgot to mention that before the original pronounciation was lost only Jewish religious leaders would pronounce the name in the temple. Narkissos thank you for the information
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jgnat
To answer schizm:
Doesn't that give rise to suspicion though? ... considering the fact that the Hebrew Scriptures contain God's name almost 7000 times, isn't it strange that all of a sudden it's all but unkown in the Greek Scriptures! What accounts for that?
A quite simple answer accounts for this. Greek and Hebrew are different languages. Jesus spoke Greek. He chose NOT to use a transliterated word for YHWH when he spoke to the people about God. This is not surprising, as it was the tradition of the times NOT to speak the name of God out loud.
How the Watchtower scholars justified their editing, is that they took the few instances where Hebrew scriptures are quoted in the Greek, noted which Greek word was used for Lord (Jehovah), then chose to translate that same word as Jehovah throughout the rest of the greek scriptures. They edited the new testament to fit their theology. To further bolster their position, they used a later translation of the Greek scriptures by a Jewish scholar (NOT the earliest manuscripts) from the Latin, who inserted Jehovah to suit HIS theology.
The Watchtower doctrines are no less man-made than the rest of Christendom's.
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City Fan
jgnat,
Wouldn't Jesus have spoken Aramaic? (Matt 26:47)