by _Atlas 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I always rationalized this died-but-had-to-die-again-anyway thing by figuring the poor fools managed to sin again at some point along the way -- being sinful, imperfect humans by nature -- and so still warranted death.
I probably also had some rationalizations about Noah, but I don't recall them at the moment... :-)
I remember wondering this when I was a dub. Near as I could tell, the resurrected people did have a "clean slate"...they had to sin again to be judged unrighteous.
This is a doctrine I have only read about a few times here (I wasn't a dub). It's weird!
A common understanding of death by many orthodox Christians is that if life is knowing God and being with God, then death is the separation of one from God.
(If so, it makes me wonder about the implications of living on "paradise earth", a place separate from God's presence... and full of elders... )
bebu
This also brings up a couple of big problems that I had:
Let's say someone dies while DFd or DAd. They have died. They have paid the wages for their sins. Yet, to the JWs, these people are considered unworthy of having a Memorial Service? at the KH.
Or, someone in a moment of utter despair commits suicide. They may be In Good Standing? as a JW or they may be DFd or DAd. They too have paid for whatever sins they have committed. Yet, they are considered unworthy of having a Memorial Service? at the KH. Sometimes a person who commits suicide is even DFd posthumously, apparently for disregarding the sanctity of life. How can a Judicial Committee? meet with them if they are dead? How can they repent if they are dead?
Those things never sat right with me. Never.
I found it even more disturbing when I learned that the WTS retains the records of all DFd and DAd persons on file even after these people had died... after they had paid for their sins with their lives.
Love, Scully
The saying is sure: If we have died with him, we shall also live with him
For the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died
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and for the jws
If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the universe, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations, "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" (referring to things which all perish as they are used), according to human precepts and doctrines?
These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh.
Hi Scully,
Sometimes a person who commits suicide is even DFd posthumously, apparently for disregarding the sanctity of life.
Are you serious about this? I mean, it wouldn't surprise me one bit, but I've never ever heard anything like that before! Have you seen it happen? If so, how screwed up is that?
Kwin
Scully:
and now that those dead ones are gone - df'd or not they will be resurrected - so says the new light (Eman just started a thread about this)
How should the ones feel during that resurrection when they run into the dead ones that were denied a memorial service.
If they all weren't so bent on judging everyone, maybe they'd take the high road once in a while.
morning kwin
At the risk of deviating from the original point of the thread, I thought i should post up the gist of a recent article on suicide.
***
w02 6/15 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***Questions
From Readerssomeone commits suicide, would it be advisable for a Christian minister to give the funeral talk?If
Each Christian minister would have to decide for himself whether he in good conscience could conduct a funeral for someone who seems to have committed suicide. When making the decision, he should consider the following questions: How does Jehovah view suicide? Was the death really a self-inflicted murder? Did a mental or emotional disorder trigger the suicide? How is suicide viewed in the locality?..........................
...(omitted body of article)
. Depending on the general attitude toward suicide in the locality, and particularly toward the case involved, the elders may prefer not to sponsor such a funeral publicly or to have it in the Kingdom Hall.
Still, if a Christian minister is asked to preside at the funeral, he may feel that on a private basis, he can do so. If he decides to do so, he should be discreet in not making any firm statements about whether a resurrection might be possible. Any future prospect for the dead is in the hands of Jehovah, and no one is in a position to say whether the deceased will be resurrected or not. The minister can concentrate on the Bible truths about death and offer comfort for the bereaved.
Re Rom. 23 - I guess I would have summised (as a dub)that since Lazurus only got ressurrected to be a sinful man again, he would have got old and died like anybody else
Ok, I'm spending too much time on techy stuff ... I saw "Rom 6:23" and thought it was a Rom update for something and a version number ...
Ok, I'm spending too much time on techy stuff ... I saw "Rom 6:23" and thought it was a Rom update for something and a version number ...
I thought it was a Rumanian Chardonnay..
Englishman.
