Unless you believe in "spirit(s)" you cannot be "spiritual"

by logansrun 38 Replies latest jw friends

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  logansrun

  Hello,

  Upon a fine conversation with a good forum member last night I started to think about the meaning of the word spiritual. Many people, including some agnostics and atheists, use this word with some regularity. "I'm not religious, but I am spiritual" is something even I have said. People talk about the "spiritual experience" of walking along the ocean, of being with a loved one, of art -- even of sex! This brings up a very important question, though: What is spirituality?

  I posit that, unless you actually believe in some form of incorporeal Spirit -- either God, a soul, the "Force", etc. -- it is not correct to use the word spiritual at all. All the experiences I listed in the above paragraph -- nature, friendship, art, sex -- are physical/emotional experiences. The only way one can say that there is a "spritual" dimension to them is if there actually is some sort of spirit! There may or may not be, but belief in a spirit realm on some level seems to be the only way one can legitimately use the word spritual (spirituality, etc).

  So, instead of saying that your walk in the Grand Canyon was a "spiritual experience" the proper thing for a disbeliever in spirit to say is that it was a "very moving, emotional/aesthetic experience." Yes?

  Does anyone disagree?

  Bradley
• 

  logansrun

  As a side note, the average JW (non-annointed) cannot rightly say that they are "spiritual" in any sense. What the JWs call "spiritual" -- going out in service, studying, following the rules, showing what they feel is love -- are nothing but behavior patterns, thoughts and emotions. There's nothing "spritual" about any of that, except the fact that they believe there is a Big Spirit "out there" somewhere who told them to do this.

  Perhaps I'm being pedantic. Or just specific?

  B.
• 

  Elsewhere

  For me, "spiritual" means that it comes from within.
• 

  Mary

  What the JWs call "spiritual" -- going out in service, studying, following the rules, showing what they feel is love -- are nothing but behavior patterns, thoughts and emotions. There's nothing "spritual" about any of that, except the fact that they believe there is a Big Spirit "out there" somewhere who told them to do this.

  Hmmm.....interesting. I never thought about it like that before. I think trying to define what is spiritual, is like trying to define 'what is conscienceness'.......seeing as we are physical beings, it's sometimes hard to put into words something that goes beyond the physical realm. I think Christians, no matter what religion you belong to, equat being spiritual as following what their religion teaches, whether or not it's true or false. We can, in a sense, create our own "spiritual needs" based on what we feel the most comfortable with. Witnesses feel that witnessing fulfills their "spiritual need", other do charity work, meditate, take pilgrimages to "holy cities", or pray. Are any of these things really "spiritual", or are they based on emotion, or are the two intertwined? I know when I was a kid, I would feel very "spiritual" whenever I heard "O Holy Night" at Christmas time. Even though I was a Witness, it made Jesus more real to me. Is that a spiritual feeling or an emotional one?

  Definetely a thought provoking topic.
• 

  JustTickledPink

  I believe you are basically correct, although it's hard to define the word "spirit" because you might equate it with God, an angel or something like that and I might define the "Spirit" as being the energy of the Universe.

  Think of your body and your "spirit" as being two seperate things... the body being the physical part and the "spirit" being the energy that runs the body. I know believing they are seperate is anti-JW, but if the body dies, and the "spirit" lives on... then it's sort of the energy that does. (I am bad at explanations)

  I believe that God is less human that people try to make "Him" be, they always equate God on human terms... but if we thought of God as being the Spirit or ENERGY of the Universe, it makes more sense to think that whie in nature you are having a SPIRITual experience... because nature is fed by the power of the sun, which in turn might be fed by the energy of the Universe, or what I believe might be God or the BIG SPIRIT in the sky.

  Or did i just confuse myself ?
• 

  logansrun

  Elsewhere,

  For me, "spiritual" means that it comes from within.

  I assume you mean our internal cognitions and emotions; our "consciousness" if you will. While keeping in mind that I believe there may be such a thing as a human spirit (I'm at least open to the idea), modern neurologists almost unanimously believe that our consciousness is simply epiphenomenal to the physical structure of our brain. Our emotions and cognitions are nothing more than the electro-chemical firing of billions of neurons. Nothing "spiritual" there. It's all physical -- chemical and electrical. (Again, this is the orthodox understanding. I'm not saying there are possible alternative views...but, there at least has to be some correspondence between the physical and mental worlds. Just drink some alcohol or smoke a little pot -- both physical things -- and you will see what effect it has on "what comes from within" you.

  In short, I think your definition of spiritual may be too general and vague.

  JustTickledPin,

  And your definition of "energy" is...? Most scientists would define energy in purely material means. The electrons (physical) passing from one atom to another (both physcial) is a form of energy (electrical current). That's one form of energy. That's physical. It ain't spiritual!

  Mary...good thoughts.

  Bradley
• 

  LittleToe

  I think it would be fair to say that I agree with you, Bradley (and I also wanted to identify the fact that it wasn't I that you were having this conversation with, and so now I feel left out ).
• 

  logansrun

  LOL @ Little Toe. Ah, buddy...you're a Big Toe in my book!
• 

  logansrun

  Man, fish ain't 'biten!

  BTTT

  B
• 

  StinkyPantz

  Does anyone disagree?

  Nope, sorry.. I agree..