I THREW THEM OUT OF MY HOUSE. (page 2)

bebu

Imagine your whole belief system going down the toilet! My advice? don't even bother with them.

Actually, depending on the person, their whole belief system might not be going down the toilet. It might simply be getting adjusted. If a person is committed to following "God" (I'm having trouble putting "Jehovah" here; their Jeh. is a weird caracature to me) with or without the WT, then the foundation hasn't really left. It's the confusion of God with the WTS that brings all the worst trouble.

I had such a weird encounter with my JW friend. I shared with her the pages which I'd shown to the others, and she was having a hard time grasping the implications. This is not entirely her fault; she is not a native English speaker. But it is hard to chink thru the armor; the reasoning is all tight circles.

I continually pressed on to try to help her understand that there was NO reconciliation between their words and the command of the Bible to never follow a false prophet. It was exhausting. The "light switch" is beyond my grasp, and though I've known it would be frustrating, I've never seen an alternative to the kind of discussions we are getting into now.

If she feels she can excuse and obey an organization even if they admit to being false prophets, then I will feel great sorrow about that. I don't think I would toss her out like those other ladies... I feel there is potential to recognize it eventually in her... is that hypocritical?

Anyway... thankfully, after 3 hours of some emotional debating, and her constant rabbit trails coming up, we are still very committed friends, and discussed that commitment. I expressed my concern about her getting pressure from elders or those 2 gals to drop me; she ruffled at that idea and said they would never pressure her--and she would not do it, anyway, even if they did. ...We also each admitted that we sometimes got exasperated each other--and we both laughed about that; it cleared the air. (I also got a bit tough on her and told her that she needed to follow thru with the research I'd given her about the mediator thing. I think she will actually do it... but I've been wrong about every other thing... )

Wish me luck on a smurf-rabbit foot.

bebu

shotgun

I bet you hadn't had your morning coffee yet when you let the Y ee H aw W oo H oo protection agency get under your skin...I would have to say if you felt like giving them the boot most others would have had a meltdown.

Bebu...they were protecting their almighty organization...I'm sure some of the things you mentioned sunk in but once they shared your info with others they decided you must be misled and misguided and all their bro and sisters reinforced that to them..boo hoo were all misled, all of mankind except Y ee H aw W oo H oo witnesses.

You accomplished much more in the visits than could ever be expected, I've seen many elders walk away from interesting discussions at the door as soon as the home owner pulled out literature, especially anything from the evil internet.

Now go have that coffee...with a little Tia Maria in it.

heathen

I wouldn't feel bad either . I understand they feel they are doing the work of the lord but they go right into insulting your intelligence just to see if you will fight back and if you don't they have another sucker ( I mean study) and if you do they quickly demonize you . Very simple . I remember throwing out a guy that I studied with for six months because he got very insulting since I wouldn't humbly submit to some stupid crap that the WTBTS insisted on , I just subtly stood up at one point and opened the door and pointed down the road so he left with out even a humble apology . Screw them , I wouldn't even lose any sleep over that .

bebu

LOL, shotgun, I have wondered if my failure to drink a good cuppa coffee had had any impact on this encounter. I guess I need you to keep me honest. (YeeHawWooHoo cracks me up!! Thanks for the laugh!)

I'm not losing any sleep over this. I may have done something differently, but I suspect the results would still have been the same. I wish them the best... I hope that they are needled in their private thoughts by what they know. What else can I do?

Thanks for all the encouraging words, folks.

bebu

M.J.

I think that one of the problems was the presence of 2 witnesses which only reinforces their programmed groupthink. Obviously your one-on-one discussions with your friend are much more fruitful. But when you are speaking to more than one at a time, both are conscious of the other's presence and thus both feel pressure NOT to give an inch or admit a shred of doubt. Remember, a cult is a system of tattle-tale-ing and always looking over your shoulder.

Also, I've noticed that they'll harp on something insignificant in order to change the subject and avoid something that disturbs them. This looks like it was the case here. And the peer pressure really magnified the problem.

bebu

Well said, MJ. I should have been thinking more clearly. Unfortunately, I didn't. I want to blame it on the lack of coffee.

My JW friend mentioned that I should talk with an elder. I waved off the idea, but now I'm rethinking it. Not because I think I would ever dazzle him with logic, but I might be able to explain to him precisely WHY I am offended, and why I did what I did. And I would like him to explain to me how John and James' private request of Jesus to put them at his right and left hand is the same as the "mistake" made when a person makes a false prophecy. Were John and James at that time proclaiming publicly their then-opinions? What's more, doing it claiming to be authorized by God?

...Actually, I'm reflecting a lot on the concepts of "prophet" and "prophecy"... What separates an opinion (even a published opinion) from a authoritative statement that declares God's backing to it? How is it that WT leader declared that Jehovah God is the editor of the WT, but then may explain its published errors are from men? ...

I'll save continued thoughts for another thread.

bebu