by philo 57 Replies latest jw friends
Somebody give me more info about the "secret handshakes" thing. We have Mormon friends (Oxymoron, I know -- or is that, "oxymormon" hahaha) coming in town to go bowling or something equally non-alcoholic.
Reagan
I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul.
Mormonism.....interesting beleifs. Actually, I am starting to do some research on their beliefs. They beleive in baptism for the dead, that Jesus was possibly married with children, that the Bible is full of contridictions, that Jesus had the same relationship with the Father like the JW's believe, that God is the God of this planet( there are gods over him), and that he is progressive, and that someday we will be like God, in that we rule over planets; that we all pre-existed in heaven and chose to come to earth, and we forgot our pre-existance; the Book of Mormon is a second testimony of Christ; (please see Galatations 1: 6-10)given on tablets by the angel Maroni to their founder; and the BOM is inspired writings. (even tho they have changed the BOM since it's first writings).
Ofcmad
"Noah was a drunk and look what he accomplished." The Metatron/Dogma
SusanHere:
Thanks for your comments. Let me elaborate on the conversation. I asked who would be saved, "Is it only Mormons?" The actual reply was, "well, there are certain exceptional individuals, like Mother Theresa of Calcutta, who WILL be saved".
It is true that they repeatedly stated that the purpose of their ministry was to give people like me a better life NOW, rather than stressing judgement. But I thought they were very clear when I asked about judgement.
That's not to contradict your comments, but it's interesting to note a possible difference between Mormon evangelising doctrine and the 'real thing', if that's how it is. Certainly, I feel there are some differences between WT 'real' teachings and door-door teaching. They, for instance, stress religious and cultural tollerance, environment, and panda bear futures on the doors, but these things take a back seat internally.
Claudia:
I'm afraid I know very little about the Mormons, which is the only reason I welcomed them to my home. The only questions I might suggest Mormons be asked would be rather superficial:
# Tell me about the amazing sacred spectacles which allowed Joseph Smith to read the golden tablets.
# Were the tablets melted down and sold, or were they taken away by God? If the former, why did God permit this sacrelige? If the latter, why again? The ten commandments tablets were traipsed around in an ark for ages, why not the golden ones?
mpatrick:
I might visit your thread if it's not too exclusive. The similarities are many, here's a couple I noticed:
# Each group appears to be corporation led
# They have 'new scriptures' treated as holy (WT magazines - book of Mormon) Although they say the bible is more important, they each practically venerate their group's 'scriptures'.
# They are very EXCLUSIVE sects (no compliment intended).
# Their missionaries live virtually in poverty, if the holes in my visitors' suit trousers, and worn shoe heels were anything to go by.
# They appear unenthusiastic about the individual. Mormon missionaries won't give out their first names, indeed they said they never used them, it was only Elder X and Elder Y, thus limiting personal contact on an individual level. The WT is more sophisticated on this one.
philo
"It is an absurdity to believe that the Deity has human passions, and one of the lowest of human passions, a restless appetite for applause." [David Hume]
Hi. I had to comment on your comment about the handshakes being related to Charles Russel. I don't know about how JWs view CR or any of his teachings, but you seemed to imply that JWs are somewhat ashamed to have CR brought up in a discussion, and that Mormons are likewise ashamed to have handshakes mentioned.
I need to clarify for you that this is not the case as far as Mormons go. The secret handshakes are an ongoing thing that is not something of the past, or that Mormons are desirous of having forgotten by everyone. In fact, they are a part of the most sacred of all Mormon ordinances, and are therefore, not to be discussed with anyone, INCLUDING other Mormons. They are part of the Temple ceremony, and not for general discussion.
It is a simple matter of sacredness being respected and cherished.
I hope this clarifies it for you a little bit so that you won't feel compelled to see it as something it is not. Thanks!
Hi. Maybe I can help clarify this for you. The secret handshakes, as you put it, are part of the Temple ordinances, and therefore are not discussed even amongst fellow Mormons, let alone with nonmembers. They are not bizarre or strange, but are part of ceremonies loved and cherished by Mormons who are Temple-goers.
By the way, I appreciate your comment that you are planning to show your Mormon company a good time while respecting their chosen beliefs and lifestyle. That shows excellent tact and consideration on your part, which I am sure they will appreciate as you would if visiting their home.
Hi, if I can assist your research, I have some excellent links that you might find useful. Let me know. You are off to a good start, it seems.
Hi, Philo,
Thanks for responding. I think the difference may well be that they were discussing what for Mormons is the only desired part of Heaven, namely, the Celestial Kingdom... which makes it a different question than "who will be saved". Celestial has a far narrower road than other levels. That may be the confusion. But even Celestial is not limited to Mormon, nor will every Mormon qualify. It is still a matter of the heart, and that is and always has been Mormon Doctrine.
Thanks!
Man, I thought people out-grew secret handshakes when they put down captain crunch's secret decoders.
Virtual poverty? Yes, indeed. The missionaries are supported by their families, not paid by the Church, and are very limited in their funds. They are also limited in what they are allowed to take with them to the mission field. They do not have time to focus on material possessions or things of the world.
As for their names, they do not use their first names, ever. Even amongst themselves. They are Elder Jones,etc. for their entire mission. This is actually a reminder to themselves that they are set apart to be in the service of God, and not there as a "civilian" or to have a good time. They are servants, sent to teach. They use the title of that calling as should all ministers who of course should also be worthy of respect by all men.
JWs are more sophistocated in this regard? How so?
Hi, Susan:
Your post was too nice for the likes of me .
Thanks for the clarification on the temple ordinances. I was talking to a Mormon that works in my Salt Lake City office, and we were joking around about the continued polygamy that exists among some Mormon extremists. He was a bit embarrassed by the discussion (shedding bad light on the decent Mormons) and I replied that there are extremists in every religion, Catholic and Protestant.
I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul.
